Total Reprogramming

[beatbox151]

"All the lonely people, where do they all belong. All the lonely people, where do they all come from." ~Beatles

When my wife initially approached me a few years ago about opening up our relationship, we were in a much different place. I said no because the terms of the arrangement were very restricted. It was only for one occasion we do every year (4 day event). She wasn't ready to open up in our relationship totally, and neither was I.

A month ago she brings it up again, but this time she wants the doors to be wide open. The restrictions are gone. I can date anyone I want and carry on a full relationship with a gf and she can do the same with a new man. Now I begin to think about it. Butterflies in my stomach, little bit of restlessness, little bit of tension. I'm nervous and scared, because

A) My first marriage was a lesson in the moral pillars of monogamy
B) I am both scared of and turned on by my wife having sex with someone else.
C) We have no sex in our marriage, so I am badly in need of sexual intimacy.

The reasons we are doing this is that we have a good marriage. We work well together, we do love each other, we have many good things in our relationship. except sex. She is not motivated by sex at all. Which is a shame because she is very, very sexy....Now she wants me to be happy, she wants me to be honest with her and not lie to her. I love her for that...truely. I may NEVER find another woman who cares so much for me.

But there is more. She still isn't really interested in having sex. She wants to try a long distance relationship via internet with a friend online. We live in North Carolina and he lives in California. I asked her if she wanted to have sex with him and her answer was less than enthusiastic. But that is just how she is.

When she said "lets have an open marriage" I thought she was going to go crazy like I wanted to. I had a VERY hard time believing that sex with others was not her main goal, because it was very much mine. It's just her....she doesn't want it that much...pure and simple.

As much as I love the idea of starting a whole new relationship, I went through (in some cases still going through) a breakdown of the conventional monogamous paradigm. It really shows me the power of social conditioning, and social norms. It is just mind bending how much we are trained in life by the outdated modes of thought. My first wife would rather see me suffer and divorce me than share me with someone else. (However it turned out she was a total hypocrite and cheated on me)

The pros of polyamory as I see them:
1) I am a very social, very flirty person. I can feel free now and not hold back
2) I feel better about myself knowing that I can love my wife enough to let her go, to find her happiness.
3) I love women. I love to talk to them, I love their voices, I love their company. I will always feel that way. I just get along with them better.
4) There are many things that I want to experience that my wife will not do. Now I have the opportunity to try them.
5) I am going back to college early next year. I need not say more.
6) I felt really good telling my wife that it is okay that she begin a new relationship and not feel jealous.
7) My wife and I are very different people...we enjoy different things, like all couples do. We have things we both like, but the things I like I can do with other women now.

Polyamory CONS:

1) Total reprogramming - Not easy to do...but listen to Yoda for encouragement. "Be not afraid to lose the thing you most desire." It is and becomes enlightenment in a very pure form.


Over time the rules we have laid out will change, and we should be open to that possibility.

How many want to share how their rules have changed from the beginning?

[MonoVCPHG]

[COLOR="Red"]"

How many want to share how their rules have changed from the beginning?

I'm 10 months in to a very committed and very "out publicly" poly relationship. The boundries are the same but they have become refined and better understood between us. Essentially our understanding has changed but not the core of the boundries.

I'm seeing more and more posts of people who's spouse doesn't apparently want sex with them. What is this all about? I can't imagine being married to someone without physical intimacy.

[beatbox151]

I'm 10 months in to a very committed and very "out publicly" poly relationship. The boundries are the same but they have become refined and better understood between us. Essentially our understanding has changed but not the core of the boundries.

I would like to explore other people's boundaries and get specific because they define the parameters of the core relationship. Everyone is different about what they expect from each other, or are they? I would think they are not.

I'm seeing more and more posts of people who's spouse doesn't apparently want sex with them. What is this all about? I can't imagine being married to someone without physical intimacy.

All of the pieces with someone fits. All of my needs are met...except one. Now I could easily just say "screw it" and divorce. I could work on it, like I did for several years only to come to an dead end, then divorce. No, I chose to stay faithful, and stay married. I have tried to work with her on it and now, in light of our new arrangement, it seems secondary or even tertiary.

The fact is, she does not derive much pleasure from it. And when someone doesn't like much of anything, its kinda hard to please them. By the same token, the act with her seems more like a chore, so my enthusiasm is gone. Kinda sad, really, but not her fault. She just doesn't like sex with anyone and doesn't think about it much.

However, from this decision I made to stay married, I have now the opportunity to love whomever I want and have sex as often as I like with as much variety as I like. Not such a bad trade off, which is why keeping her happy and staying within the boundaries is important to me.

[Fidelia]

I would like to explore other people's boundaries and get specific because they define the parameters of the core relationship.

You do know that's a lot to ask, right?

"Hi, I'm beatbox. I would like to get right up in your personal business. Thanks."

Everyone is different about what they expect from each other, or are they? I would think they are not.
Every person, every relationship, and every polyamorous situation is different. In polyamoury, as in life, one size does not fit all.

[MonoVCPHG]

I was going to go through all previous threads dealing with boundaries but then realized this might not be the best thing to do. Why? Because it looks as if you are asking for an "operator's manual" for a polyamorous life. There are so many ways to approach poly and so many different personalities involved that we can't even agree on what poly is or isn't lol! Boundaries, rules, dynamics, relationship structures are so various there is no set way of negotiating or guidelines that can be applied across the board. Communication and honesty is the only thing that seems to be a constant in all these relationships.

While it is good to read and learn from other people's experiences, it is up to each individual to really discovery why they want things, how they can achieve them and what boundaries they will need to develop to achieve their personal goals...because they are personal.


When people ask how to justify thier interest in poly to a partner I used to offer some advice...now I just put that back on them. IMO if you can't come up with logical, understandable and genuine reasons for wanting something..then you don't want it for the right reasons. There are some things that others simply can't understand however...in those cases you just have to find acceptance.

[leeandlouise]

I'm not sure of your sexual situation with your wife but I have been there. I'm kinda new to all this too and I'm sure that what monovchpvabcd :^) may be referring to is a post I made very similar to yours on Friday. It took my wife and I 15 years before she ever even stared to like sex with me. Of course, we had some good moments over the years but overall, pretty bad. I think she just needed to let herself feel good about herself. I'll be blunt, she started masturbating (she didn't before ... much), thought of other men during our sex, etc. It wasn't until we started really talking about all this and we began a "complete honesty" clause in our conversations did any of this ever surface.
I don't know about everyone else out there, but this openness has been the best thing ever for our sex life. She's unreal ... like a completely different person.
Hopefully, this will happen for you. Talk, talk, talk ... and don't hold anything back. I think even monogamous couples would benefit from doing this.

[MonoVCPHG]

monovchpvabcd :^).


HAHA!! It does look like I have a monopoly on the alphabet doesn't it? Get it..mono-poly :)

[redpepper]

HAHA!! It does look like I have a monopoly on the alphabet doesn't it? Get it..mono-poly :)

Oh laurd... ;)

Does there have to be any other reason to be poly other than it just makes sense to you?

[MonoVCPHG]

Oh laurd... ;)

Does there have to be any other reason to be poly other than it just makes sense to you?

If you are starting from ground zero than I agree..you don't need a reason or even need to be able to explain it. If you are trying to bring an existing partner online, I'm afraid you'll need to be able to explain it a lot better than it makes sense. Otherwise you may as well plan to split your assets before bringing it up IMO.

[redpepper]

Yes good point Mono :)

[beatbox151]

First off, I would like to thank everyone for their replies. Perhaps Mono is right, maybe I'm looking for a "manual" from a group of people with varying experience. However, I did not mean to elicit personal information or become this posting interloper.

It's true that the boundaries are different for everyone, I think that's why I was interested to know them. Not because I would use them in my own experience., but because I find the concepts and reasonings behind them interesting in themselves...the whys and the hows ect.....So yes I can see how that is terribly personal, and I would totally understand not wanting to share them with others.

But I think there is merit in exploring this, as I'm sure we all have...

I think I made it clear that my conflict with myself is what I am exploring. I'm writing it out so that I can see with my own eyes what I really feel about this. I am exploring my own hesitations, and weaknesses. I am interested, in a spiritual sense, in facing that which I fear the most. Moving headlong into a frightful situation and overcoming it.....Like I did with quiting smoking.

Overcoming cigarettes made me feel like I could do anything....including letting go of the woman I love more than anyone........

this is a huge spiritual test for me.

Please understand, i mean no disrespect by asking personal things.

[MonoVCPHG]

No one thinks you are being disrespectful my friend. I also found this forum as a way to work through my own issues. Redpepper then joined and the rest is history :)....ok..not all smiles LOL!

I understand where you are coming from now. I have posted many of my most personal thoughts around my boundaries and you are more than welcome to use any of my experiences in learning about yourself. I apologize if I came off as anything but sharing.

Hope you find what you are looking for and feel free to ask anything :)

[beatbox151]

Thanks Mono...I appreciate that. This transaction has helped more than you know.

My wife and I had a discussion tonight, again. This time she was asking me if I had been able to read two books we purchased

"The Ethical Slut"
and "Opening Up"

She has already read one of them. I told her that I had not, but that I was looking into other avenues for information as well as reading the latter. She wanted to know what I had posted and I told her to the best of my memory. I told her about some of the responses I received. (I said nothing but nice things)

Then I asked her if she had spoken to her friend....I will call him Scott. She said she had and that he seemed interested in a relationship with my wife. At that moment something deep in me did not want to know the answer to the question. My stomach began to get queasy, like it is now.I lost my appetite. I felt anxious and cold. I began to shiver a little.

But then I realized that Scott and her have a long history together online...they roleplay together with characters and scenarios and the friendship fufills a creative side to her, that makes her happy. So I somehow become happy for her and glad that he's the one she wants to try a relationship with. This all in the span of about 3 minutes.....bi-polar perhaps

The physical manifestations are extremely interesting to me. At worst it is seething with jealousy, at the same time, turned on, and sometimes nauseated. Then I remember myself and it goes away.

Then she asks me about my prospects. I begin to tell her that I am NOT, at this moment, interested in a long term relationship. I am interested in short term and non-commital. Ideally a long term relationship is what I'm looking for but now I want to explore the field, so to speak. I tell her that I have a couple of prospects, but that one was a longshot. My mood changes from nervous to confident, but still uninterested in the food.

*The waitress keeps looking at me, so I make eye contact. She is beautiful, and I want to approach her but I don't because I don't want to offend my wife sitting across from....*

Crap!

[MonoVCPHG]

Normally I would warn you away from the Ethical Slut but because you are both opening up and admittedly you are looking to play the field...I hold a lot of respect in your honesty by the way..then I think it would be good for you. When you read it, think of it from your perspective and how you want to achieve your relationship goals. It is not a book for those trying to deal with a one sided open or poly relationship in my opinion. It is however the most popular self help book for those looking to open up for themselves.

I must admit I have little to offer in regards to your situation but I wish you the best of everything and thank you for being so honest.

Take care
Peace and love
Mono

[Ame]

Joined this forum specifically to reply to this post:

Honestly your wife sounds asexual. I can say this because I myself am an asexual recently in a polyamorous relationship. How it works for us it my two partners (who are pretty damn sexual) handle that part of their relationship, and we share the rest of it.

An asexual is defined as a person who does not experience sexual attraction. That doesn't mean we don't experience emotional or necessarily physical attraction, just that sex is optional rather than required. It usually means we have no sex drive, and in the case we have one (some of us do) it ends at masturbation. There is no desire to involve another person. That's not to say an asexual can't have sex; I very well could if I could work up enough interest...it's just so much work to do so it feels like a chore. Haha.

Of course she could just be hyposexual or any other variety of things, but asexuality is an option (and there are more of us than you think ;) )

I recommend asexuality.org if you're interested.

[redpepper]

Wow, cool, thanks for sharing that Ame...!! very interesting.

I have been reading along and I honestly can't seem to muster up on single boundary... I sit here knowing that my husband is getting his dick sucked as we speak and it congers up nothing but a smile....

After a time it just seems like everyday life I guess. It wasn't always, but after a shit load of work, most of which I have written about at length on here, it all flows and seems sooo natural. Why aren't others doing this?!

Okay I will try to conjure up some as I should probably do that at some point....

1. no unsafe sex EVER!!! Lots of discussions and testing must happen before fluid bonding.
2. tell each other where we are and who we are with
3. remember our first responsibility is to our child and his family life.
4. things go as fast as the one who is the least comfortable allows. If one of us is uncomfortable then we slow down to their speed of dealing.
5. honesty and openness always... with tact and in the spirit of being respectful of each others boundaries of knowing details.
6. it's mandatory to know each others lovers. If they don't pass the others inspection and interview (tongue in cheek!) then they are vetoed out.

that's all I can think of for now......

[beatbox151]

Awesome RP....Thanks for sharing that with me.

Ame - I think your pretty close. For her I think perhaps the newness of a good relationship can get her going, but it fizzles pretty fast. Her fiance, before she met me cheated on her because of this same thing. I held in there and I'm glad I did. The rewards are becoming apparent.

Rules:
1) Condoms/testing, no diseases, no babies.
2) No having sex in our bed/house
3) Calling in if I am going to be late, and giving a days notice if I am going over night. which can get tricky. She was very specific about this.
4) I go first. Now, she already has a guy she is working with, but as it comes to sex, I go first.
5) I get sick, she's needs me to get her in a broke down car, I/she has to drop what we are doing with anyone a help out, so to speak.
6) I need, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, reassurance that I am the primary and considered first as it comes to relationships. Her the same, we need to do things for each other on a regular basis. A card, flowers, anything that does that......At least in the beginning. .

Wow, we had more than I thought.

She doesn't need to know my lovers, but if I have found a special one, she would meet her. She does seem very interested though and will probably ask anyway.

[Manno]

Great questions, great support.

And I think a lot of people who found this lifestyle realized that Monogamy was stifling all aspects of their lives.

When we made this leap into our new chapter in our lives, all of that changed. All fears were lost when confronting or sharing our lives with one another. Our communication was like switching from dialup to high speed wifi. And because of that, all the aspects of our lives that were stifled were aloud to thrive (and it is amazing!)

One thing I have to say is that there is more pleasing is being in the presence of someone you are attracted to and your primary or theirs. When my wife's boyfriend came over to talk with me and her, it was one of the best experiences I've had out of all of this.

I think having my wife know my lovers is actually a necessity. A: she is my best friend, so why would I not want her to know about my love life. She is the one that will put that relationship into perspective and be able to help me think it out, and vice versa. And believe me, it won't exactly be easy, and you will need to talk it out at times.

One thing I see in all of the really helpful advice posts is "Communicate" and I cannot stress it enough!.

[redpepper]

Beatbox, I would add to my list your 2 and 5 and a variation of your 3. Thanks for those reminders.

I would agree entirely on knowing who my husband is involved with. That way we can talk about them and his situation.

I have a thing about knowing who is touching him. It makes me feel closer to them somehow so why would I not want to know who I feel closer to. Does that make sense?

[Manno]

I really think we kinda grok about the whole total disclosure thing.

[redpepper]

I really think we kinda grok about the whole total disclosure thing.

we kinda "grok?" sorry, I don't get it:confused:

[NeonKaos]

we kinda "grok?" sorry, I don't get it:confused:

I guess you don't "grok" then.

It's Heinlein slang for "Wow I totally get it dude".

[beatbox151]

Beatbox, I would add to my list your 2 and 5 and a variation of your 3. Thanks for those reminders.

That's great. I'm glad you feel that way, makes me feel we are on the right track with this.

I would agree entirely on knowing who my husband is involved with. That way we can talk about them and his situation.

I have a thing about knowing who is touching him. It makes me feel closer to them somehow so why would I not want to know who I feel closer to. Does that make sense?

I guess I feel that there should be some space given to the new relationship and that perhaps the details could be left out. I can understand more in a vague, general disclosure maybe. But, the truth is, she will ask regardless. I think her curiosity will get the better of her on most anyone I date. I know her well. :D

This evening I went to see if I could get the number of that waitress, whose name I found out. The whole thing felt odd, mostly because I'm out of practice and this was kind of a bold move on my part...for me at least.

Now, here is a situation where I'm never going to meet this person anywhere else. I see her and I'm attracted to her, so do I just let it go?.....No I go back the next day, sit, have a drink and talk to the people around me. She sees me again and so at some point I just ask the bartender to give her my number.

Well, the approach seemed reasonable at the moment. ;)

But now I'm thinking, what if she calls? How do I explain this whole thing to her? When do I tell her? That kind of thing....I will read around for some answers.

[MonoVCPHG]

Holy crap you poly people got your work cut out for you :p

Sometimes I just roll my eyes and laugh at all the stuff we talk about on here lol!

They could definitely make a show about our lives..but not "The Family"...apparently it makes us look like dorks to mainstream relationship practitioners :o

[beatbox151]

You seem to at least want to have the answers people are looking for. Perhaps you have graduated to a degree that you can look around at us, or just me, and find these things amusing :D

Like watching a pet search around in new territory can be both interesting and funny because they haven't discovered all the surprises yet. I should think you have it pretty put together over there.....

I'm freakin 33 years old and I feel like a kid again now that our playground went from the swing, to monkey bars, a slide, a tire swing, and, well you get the point.

If the show were going to be any good it would have to be on Skinamax. Anything less would be a disservice. HBO has Big Love Showtime Californication and while that's not the same thing, there is hardly room on those channels for a poly show......But I do agree. You can play the lead character Mono. ;)

[MonoVCPHG]

You can play the lead character Mono. ;)


No leading character here! I'm a professional "secondary". I'm most comfortable as a supporting actor LOL!

Redpepper is going to give me shit for saying that...

[redpepper]

he just thinks he is secondary... I don't know how many times I have to tell him! :rolleyes:

[redpepper]

It does feel strange beatbox... I think women have it a lot more easy. They just kind of announce that they are free and men come to them. I feel bad for all you men on the dating scene. Especially Poly dating!!! geesh, hard work. Still, try and enjoy it. You sound like you are! Remember you are not alone and have your wife to talk to and muse about the whole thing with... she could give you some points on what she think would work and what your strong points are that should be brought forward. This seemed to help my husband. I thought he was the cutest thing ever when he was dating a lot. My problem was not following behind him to yell at his date that they better treat him right or I would be after them! :D:p I am so protective over my men :o

[Manno]

Beat:
I just want you to know, I'm your age, and this is AS new. Maybe a week. But I've embraced that attitude almost instantly. I am as happy as can be right now. This will work out and be grand and yes, I've already grown in many ways since I found an ideal that worked for me and my wife.

Furthermore, I think the search for another will just be as meaningful and fun, although it will have some extreme lows along with the rollercoaster ride of Highs.

And Red Pepper:
You are absolutely right in that regard, worse yet, most of the people that I know that I have suspicions about them being poly are, but they are single or at least have no kids. (Then again, almost none of my friends really have kids or they're not at home anymore.)

[beatbox151]

It does feel strange beatbox... I think women have it a lot more easy. They just kind of announce that they are free and men come to them. I feel bad for all you men on the dating scene. Especially Poly dating!!! geesh, hard work. Still, try and enjoy it. You sound like you are! Remember you are not alone and have your wife to talk to and muse about the whole thing with... she could give you some points on what she think would work and what your strong points are that should be brought forward. This seemed to help my husband. I thought he was the cutest thing ever when he was dating a lot. My problem was not following behind him to yell at his date that they better treat him right or I would be after them! :D:p I am so protective over my men :o

Well, my wife thinks I should be up front with everyone I date right off the bat. And I agree from an ethical point of view. However, from a probability POV I think I should give it some time. Let them get to know me. Decide whether or not I am someone they like, then tell them.

Two schools of thought, and the 3rd option.....don't tell them....which is neither practical nor ethical. Disaster would soon follow. I prefer to keep things civil.

And pepper, I appreciate you acknowledging this about the males having their work cut out for them. It may get rough and maybe even lonely.

Perhaps this girl will call me, maybe not. She didn't last night, but it was not unexpected seeing as how I had no "IN".

[redpepper]

I always aired on the side of telling them right away. I always figure that someone will know they are interested in me in the first few moments of meeting and therefore they should also know the deal in those first few moments too.

I can't remember what I said to Mono, maybe he remembers, but I find it impossible not to talk about my husband and son as they are a huge part of my life. So I get it out of the way and then act like it's nothing unusual and totally normal, which it is to me anyways... acting like I am just me is the best I can do... often there are a lot of questions and I answer them in complete honesty and without taking on their judgment or jealousy, just stay humble.... "yup, I get to fuck three lovely men and thoroughly have my cake and eat it too :) lucky me."

I have the type of personality and character though that people seem to just accept and respect my openness and honesty. I am never shy, cautious or have any hesitation in telling people details about myself. Especially sexual details and fine print! I find it invigorating and a challenge... I think it is written all over my face in a cheeky self confident way :D

[Fidelia]

we kinda "grok?" sorry, I don't get it:confused:

Grok
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To grok (pronounced /ˈɡrɒk/) is to share the same semiosphere or line of thinking with another physical or conceptual entity. Author Robert A. Heinlein coined the term in his best-selling 1961 book Stranger in a Strange Land. In Heinlein's view, grokking is the intermingling of intelligence that necessarily affects both the observer and the observed.

From the novel: Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthly assumptions) as color means to a blind man.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines grok as "to understand intuitively or by empathy; to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment."

[Fidelia]

I always aired on the side of telling them right away. I always figure that someone will know they are interested in me in the first few moments of meeting and therefore they should also know the deal in those first few moments too.

I can't remember what I said to Mono, maybe he remembers, but I find it impossible not to talk about my husband and son as they are a huge part of my life. So I get it out of the way and then act like it's nothing unusual and totally normal, which it is to me anyways... acting like I am just me is the best I can do... often there are a lot of questions and I answer them in complete honesty and without taking on their judgment or jealousy, just stay humble.... "yup, I get to fuck three lovely men and thoroughly have my cake and eat it too :) lucky me."

I have the type of personality and character though that people seem to just accept and respect my openness and honesty. I am never shy, cautious or have any hesitation in telling people details about myself. Especially sexual details and fine print! I find it invigorating and a challenge... I think it is written all over my face in a cheeky self confident way :D

I absolutely LOVE that about you, Red! I'm working toward that goal myself.

[Manno]

RP: I have to say that this is my planned approach too.

I don't want to waste a lot of time skirting the issue and it is an intense issue, but I hope that my personality and my body language are able to deliver that issue well. Furthermore, I'd hate to ask someone out and then after they say yes and before the date they learn that I'm married and am poly from someone else. Like that person can say it better or for me. I want to be the person who tells them. Doing so sooner than later ensures that.

[beatbox151]

Let me just take this moment to thank everyone for being so understanding and accepting about this. I appreciate all of the comments and I feel much better with you guys being a support group.

Honestly, I have always wanted more than one partner/lover/emotional friend, but I think I was just conditioned to think that it would never happen for me. Making it feel normal is probably one of the best things that has ever happened for me.....again thank you for your warm welcome. I will be a regular here, for sure.

[redpepper]

Grok
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To grok (pronounced /ˈɡrɒk/) is to share the same semiosphere or line of thinking with another physical or conceptual entity. Author Robert A. Heinlein coined the term in his best-selling 1961 book Stranger in a Strange Land. In Heinlein's view, grokking is the intermingling of intelligence that necessarily affects both the observer and the observed.

From the novel: Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthly assumptions) as color means to a blind man.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines grok as "to understand intuitively or by empathy; to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment."

Wow, cool! thanks.... :)

[LovingRadiance]

Well, my wife thinks I should be up front with everyone I date right off the bat. And I agree from an ethical point of view. However, from a probability POV I think I should give it some time. Let them get to know me. Decide whether or not I am someone they like, then tell them.

Two schools of thought, and the 3rd option.....don't tell them....which is neither practical nor ethical. Disaster would soon follow. I prefer to keep things civil.

And pepper, I appreciate you acknowledging this about the males having their work cut out for them. It may get rough and maybe even lonely.

Perhaps this girl will call me, maybe not. She didn't last night, but it was not unexpected seeing as how I had no "IN".

We've been discussing this the last few days. I think I think (no that's not a typo, still considering) that it needs to be said before anything sexual occurs. But if you are just saying hello-getting to know someone, I'm not sure at that point it's NECESSARY. I haven't decided.
For me I just tell people,Yeah I'm poly and no I'm not available. Because that's the case... But for maca... well see-I'm not really possessive in one sense. I don't mind if he makes friends and waits for the time he knows they aren't just "hello every morning at the coffee shop" people to tell them... on the other hand I'd be boiling mad if he had sex without them knowing he was married...

[LovingRadiance]

I always aired on the side of telling them right away. I always figure that someone will know they are interested in me in the first few moments of meeting and therefore they should also know the deal in those first few moments too.

I can't remember what I said to Mono, maybe he remembers, but I find it impossible not to talk about my husband and son as they are a huge part of my life. So I get it out of the way and then act like it's nothing unusual and totally normal, which it is to me anyways... acting like I am just me is the best I can do... often there are a lot of questions and I answer them in complete honesty and without taking on their judgment or jealousy, just stay humble.... "yup, I get to fuck three lovely men and thoroughly have my cake and eat it too :) lucky me."

I have the type of personality and character though that people seem to just accept and respect my openness and honesty. I am never shy, cautious or have any hesitation in telling people details about myself. Especially sexual details and fine print! I find it invigorating and a challenge... I think it is written all over my face in a cheeky self confident way :D

Ditto (but not 3 men!) I think I need some kids to grow up and move out if I want a third partner!:eek:

[sunnydee]

Let me just take this moment to thank everyone for being so understanding and accepting about this. I appreciate all of the comments and I feel much better with you guys being a support group.

Honestly, I have always wanted more than one partner/lover/emotional friend, but I think I was just conditioned to think that it would never happen for me. Making it feel normal is probably one of the best things that has ever happened for me.....again thank you for your warm welcome. I will be a regular here, for sure.


I'm new to both dating and to being poly and I've been struggling with the "when to tell" thing. There's been kind of a steep learning curve, to tell the truth. I do think it's different for me as a woman, but, Beatbox, if at possible, you will find it considerably easier to start by dating a polygirl rather than approaching someone who will very likely not be cool with you being married.

Several times recently, I've dated mono men and I found them particularly difficult because they really didn't want to hear that I'm dating others, they sort of dismissively said yes, they were fine with me dating others or whatever, then, very quickly, changed their minds. It got stressful so I've taken a break from them for a while.

I think, though, that if you didn't tell a mono woman up front, she'd be pretty p*ssed if you're married. Single and dating others, you could probably get away with til the second date. But most mono women want relationships and they don't want to waste time with someone who really isn't available to them. Polygirl, Beatbox, give it a try. OKCupid can be a nice place to find polyfolk.

[MonoVCPHG]

if at possible, you will find it considerably easier to start by dating a polygirl rather than approaching someone who will very likely not be cool with you being married.

.

Great advice! I am a huge fan of getting it out there right away so why not search in circles already aware and accepting of poly.

Oddly enough Redeppper searched for a very long time amongst other more like minded people and ended up with me! How ironic is that LOL!

It just goes to show that some relationships are found and some were just meant to come into your life.

[beatbox151]

I'm new to both dating and to being poly and I've been struggling with the "when to tell" thing. There's been kind of a steep learning curve, to tell the truth. I do think it's different for me as a woman, but, Beatbox, if at possible, you will find it considerably easier to start by dating a polygirl rather than approaching someone who will very likely not be cool with you being married.

Several times recently, I've dated mono men and I found them particularly difficult because they really didn't want to hear that I'm dating others, they sort of dismissively said yes, they were fine with me dating others or whatever, then, very quickly, changed their minds. It got stressful so I've taken a break from them for a while.

I think, though, that if you didn't tell a mono woman up front, she'd be pretty p*ssed if you're married. Single and dating others, you could probably get away with til the second date. But most mono women want relationships and they don't want to waste time with someone who really isn't available to them. Polygirl, Beatbox, give it a try. OKCupid can be a nice place to find polyfolk.

Thank you Sunnydee for the advise. I did sign up to OKcupid, and with some persistence perhaps something might come of it.

[beatbox151]

Hey everyone,

I just thought I'd share a response I got from a woman on OKCupid that you might find interesting.

ME:
Yes, I'm married. I'm upfront about it, and she knows that I come here to meet people. And 'weird' though it may be to some, my wife and I are okay with sharing each other. I love her very much and I can let her go, and she can do the same for me. A consensual agreement.

I read your profile and you are not into married men, and I totally understand that. Cheating married men are devious, lying, hypocritical, assholes who just want to get theirs and save their own ass when the shit hits the fan.

I, however, am not a cheater, and never have been. I am a dedicated, loving, and generous person who doesn't need to lie, or deceive you or my wife. I am open about who I am and the things I need in a relationship. I was told this site was open minded about this kind of thing, but perhaps, like in my own case, it takes some getting used to.

I appreciate you writing back at least. If you wanna be friends, that's cool, if not, best of luck to you and I hope you find what makes you happy.

HER:I'm an open minded person...but I will never, ever understand swingers- in my opinion it's trashy and really the only people who could be ok with sharing someone they were head-over-heels in love with are damaged people in general...or they aren't actually in love. :) Again, my opinion- so friendship wouldn't be a good idea. Best of luck! Adult Friend Finder would probably be a better place for you and your wife.


I take issue with the underlined. It implies much about me and my wife that she can't possibly know. I am head over heels in love with my wife. Does she drive me frickin crazy? yes....Does she have her issues? Of course. But that's what makes her my wife, and I chose her for god damn good reason. :cool:

Still, though you gotta laugh :D

Sorry I cussed......I'm gonaa go towel down now....:rolleyes:

[Magdlyn]

HER:I'm an open minded person...but I will never, ever understand swingers- in my opinion it's trashy and really the only people who could be ok with sharing someone they were head-over-heels in love with are damaged people in general...or they aren't actually in love. :) Again, my opinion- so friendship wouldn't be a good idea. Best of luck! Adult Friend Finder would probably be a better place for you and your wife.



Ooh! that was rude. And obviously she doesnt understand the diff between swingers and poly ppl.

[redpepper]

Just so you know, It took me a very long time, a lot of dates and many returned messages like that one to find what worked for my husband and my lives. I had just about given up when I met Mono...

Stay strong and let crap like that flow off your back. You could however point out to this woman that she is obviously not in the know about Poly and that OKC is where most of us search for others. AFF is for swingers and that is why you aren't there, because you aren't a swinger. Perhaps she will be interested enough to carry on a conversation... perhaps not. But I reckon a little educating doesn't hurt and only makes Poly more acceptable.

[sunnydee]

Well, Beat, I did tell you mono women will generally not appreciate being approached by a married man. If you search for poly in the keywords, you might be a lot happier with the results.

To be fair, she may have spoken a little rudely, but that's the internet for you. Oth, there's no reason, really, that she should understand there's a "difference" between swingers and poly. Most people aren't going to know anything about this and even swingers and polys still debate it.

[RavenSophi]

Oth, there's no reason, really, that she should understand there's a "difference" between swingers and poly. Most people aren't going to know anything about this and even swingers and polys still debate it.

I think it would be nice of Beat to send a reply explaining the difference, of course she doesn't deserve any further communication after a response like that, but still.
Personally I think we should do what we can to 'educate' people if not for their good but for our own. I for one don't like to be associated with swinging because I'm poly. It's two totally different things in my book and I for the life of me can't see why swingers and poly people would debate if there actually is a difference.

Swinging is about the sex, poly is about building a meaningful relationship which involve sex yes, but that's not the main focus. IMO.

[beatbox151]

Well, Beat, I did tell you mono women will generally not appreciate being approached by a married man. If you search for poly in the keywords, you might be a lot happier with the results.

To be fair, she may have spoken a little rudely, but that's the internet for you. Oth, there's no reason, really, that she should understand there's a "difference" between swingers and poly. Most people aren't going to know anything about this and even swingers and polys still debate it.

I certainly was not trying to point a finger at you about this response. In fact, I did look up Poly people, but they seem to be few and far away from me. I am still looking though.

This was something that occurred because I had rated her high, and she rated me high, she instantly received an email (A way for OKCupid to bring people together but not FROM me). So she did have an interest, although one based on pictures rather than the content of the profile. She then read the profile and was disappointed, or just grossed out, or whatever and that's how it began.

As far as taking time to explain to her the difference between swinging and poly, I have neither the time or inclination to continue the conversation. She obviously would rather place me in some icky-man catagory than listen to what I say about it.

Ahh well, via con queso. :cool:

[sunnydee]

I certainly was not trying to point a finger at you about this response. In fact, I did look up Poly people, but they seem to be few and far away from me. I am still looking though.

As far as taking time to explain to her the difference between swinging and poly, I have neither the time or inclination to continue the conversation. She obviously would rather place me in some icky-man catagory than listen to what I say about it.

Ahh well, via con queso. :cool:

Goodness, I know that. I don't take things that personally. :)

I agree. When someone isn't open to listening, why bother? You have no reason to try to convince anyone. And, well, people do debate it, quite hotly. There was just a very long and emotional debate on one of the groups I subscribe to. I don't care to debate it, but there are those that do.

[beatbox151]

Just so you know, It took me a very long time, a lot of dates and many returned messages like that one to find what worked for my husband and my lives. I had just about given up when I met Mono...

Stay strong and let crap like that flow off your back. You could however point out to this woman that she is obviously not in the know about Poly and that OKC is where most of us search for others. AFF is for swingers and that is why you aren't there, because you aren't a swinger. Perhaps she will be interested enough to carry on a conversation... perhaps not. But I reckon a little educating doesn't hurt and only makes Poly more acceptable.

My wife and I laughed about it afterward so I'm not bothered by it. I'm certainly not worried about what she thinks of me.

But going off topic:
Being poly has totally changed my outlook on marriage. I see this as an evolution in thought and I don't think I could, or would go back. Eliminating jealousy, deep trust, honesty, communication...these are the things I need in a relationship and it seemed to me before that all of it was lacking.

Now its not back all the way yet, but it has made remarkable improvement in a short period of time. And it all came from a mutual wanting to stay together. So much so that we are able to let each other go, if that makes sense.

I am not perfect, and I am not always going to see eye to eye with my wife. So she has someone who can fill in the gaps. I want her to be happy.

On the other hand she wants the same for me. She has been very supportive of me finding someone and I have found that I can talk to her about it....I love that I can do that now.....

The other night we were at an Italian Restaurant near my house and we were being served by the waitress. And she was beautiful. Red hair, nice smile, great body, and I told my wife that I liked her. Well the meal went on and I tried to talk to her at the table, except I kinda got nervous and stuttered a bit. My wife laughed and thought it was cute.

Well, I didn't say anything else, cuz I was kind of embarrassed, but I just love that we can talk like that to each other now...I felt really good for the rest of the night just because of that.

[RavenSophi]

The other night we were at an Italian Restaurant near my house and we were being served by the waitress. And she was beautiful. Red hair, nice smile, great body, and I told my wife that I liked her. Well the meal went on and I tried to talk to her at the table, except I kinda got nervous and stuttered a bit. My wife laughed and thought it was cute.


The thing I enjoyed most in the beginning was the openness; walking down the street and my partner spotting a nice looking girl and telling me that he found her atractive.
I'm bi so we can look at women together. I know his taste so well by now that if I see a woman he would like I tell him to look.

[AutumnalTone]

How many want to share how their rules have changed from the beginning?

I don't know that the rules have changed. We don't have many rules, to begin with, so there isn't much to change.

•Safe sex if not fluid bonded
•Our marriage is primary--any relationship that places undue strain on it will end (no tolerance for extreme drama)

Um, that's it. We share such preferences as an aversion to heavy drinkers and regular drug users, so we don't need rules about that. I prefer other partners to meet Curly prior to any serious dating, though that's not required; I suspect she expects the same of anybody she'd get involved with, though I've not asked (because I don't expect to meet them prior).

We have the expectations that we will still spend adequate time together for our relationship and so forth. There are no rules about how many nights we have to be home or anything like that.

I think the driving principle could be stated as "Nurture the relationship" and our behavior serves that. If I'm nurturing the relationship, I'm making certain I spend enough time with her, that I'm paying her enough attention, that we're engaged in growing our marriage, and she's getting what she needs from me. As long as that's happening, everything else is pretty much OK.

[beatbox151]

Thanks for that Crow.

I realize the sensitive nature of the boundries that we have with our spouses. Apparently you have not come across a situation where you thought you might need to tweek the rules a bit, because you or your spouse were feeling uneasy about something.

I guess trust is the key there.

[redpepper]

Not only that but when you've been Poly for awhile, things just don't seem as desperate... rules become much more simplified.

[GroundedSpirit]

I think it would be nice of Beat to send a reply explaining the difference, of course she doesn't deserve any further communication after a response like that, but still.
Personally I think we should do what we can to 'educate' people if not for their good but for our own. I for one don't like to be associated with swinging because I'm poly. It's two totally different things in my book and I for the life of me can't see why swingers and poly people would debate if there actually is a difference.

Swinging is about the sex, poly is about building a meaningful relationship which involve sex yes, but that's not the main focus. IMO.

Some really good points here and some nicely debatable.
I often vacillate myself on the "educational" part as there's some part of me - when I see reactions like the response from her - that makes me want to cry out "WHOOOAAA here - we need some understanding and clarity here" and try to take the time to do some sharing and educating for...???.... the greater good ? But then I sometimes fall back and say "who am I to try to influence someone elses thinking/worldview ? Let it go !

I think this itself might make a fine thread for this forum as it's likely that most of us here are here primarilly for that purpose - to share & learn from each other. To reach out for "the greater good" etc.

Does anyone else agree ? Shall we ? Is there enough interest ?

[beatbox151]

Well, like all topics of debate you have some who wish to explain & convert, or at least get someone to see your POV. Then there are those who would rather not influence others and feel no real duty to explain it, especially if they are hostile, or rude about it. Which I am...

I prefer, however, to tell if asked and only when asked. Of course I only mean this in context of someone who is curious about it and wants to know more.

However, If I am..say trying to date a mono and she needs to know that I am married and poly, then I may try to be more persuasive with my POV. Depends on the situation.

[MonoVCPHG]

say trying to date a mono .

Are you crazy man!:eek: Don't you read my posts?! We're poison I tell you..poison :(.....back away from the monos....

[beatbox151]

Yes true in your case Mono, but that doesn't mean that some mono women aren't fine as all get out and in need of something special in their lives. Like me? :cool:

In that case, I may find it very necessary to carefully explain all of the good attributes of ploy, while downplaying perhaps it drawbacks.

Resistance at first is to be expected, but like the 12 step program, acceptance being in their somehwere, I think it may be possible to administer the "blue" pill of poly and show them a world they might never have known. ;)

btw- Did I tell you guys how full of it I can be?

[MonoVCPHG]

btw- Did I tell you guys how full of it I can be?

You just did! :D

[beatbox151]

Greetings everyone,

The adventure continues.......
I have rediscovered an old high school friend of mine, whom I loved deeply. Not in the romantic sense, but we connected mentally.Our friendship was intense and very intertwined with other high school friends who are beginning to come back into the picture (Mostly because of Facebook)

I'll call her Kate.

Now this will never be a physical relationship, but a very deep, emotional one. I was so excited I have barely been able to sleep the past few days.

Seems silly, but I feel like I have opened a floodgate and the pressure I felt has released. It has been amazing.

btw - I resisted facebook, and the fact that I have rekindled this friendship has made it worthwhile. Very worthwhile.

:D