Can one have a 'primary' partner for whom they are not 'primary'?

[rolypoly]

Something that's come up a couple times and is resurfacing again.

Having a partner in your life who for you is "primary", whatever that means for you. But, you don't have as much "importance" for them. I don't know how else to phrase it.

Just thinking out loud, really.

roly

[Ceoli]

Yep, it happens. I know a few people in that situation. It's also a situation that can work for some.

[Fidelia]

The question is whether the needs of each partner are being met. If everyone's needs are being fulfilled, there's no problem and "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[rolypoly]

Thanks. I know it's possible and can work. Just haven't yet experienced it fully. I spent the night with 'R' last night and realize how much I love him. He cares about me too, but it's a bit complicated. He is bi, but has relationships primarily with men. We have a strong connection and I'm thinking it has meaning for me that's different than for him. I'm pretty happy being in his life in whatever capacity. The fear is, of course, what if he fell in love with a man. It would change our relationship, etc, etc... The usual poly stuff. ;)

Just amazes me how love can be just love. How loving someone can be so fulfilling in and of itself.

[Ceoli]

Here's a good piece on being a secondary:

http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html

Some of it might be useful for you.

[redpepper]

I like to think of it that way too roly, love can be just love and it can be fulfilling just to love.
I do this readily regardless if someone loves me back even a titch. I totally think they can be a primary even if you are not theirs. As long as you don't have expectations that you receive that title in return and keep yourself from being used or hurt because of it, then why not. There is nothing I like more than bestowing love on people without them knowing. Unfortunately I have been used for this trait and have to be very clear that I bestow love on my own terms, rather than theirs. It can get complicated but can be so fullfilling, as you say. I don't regret giving of myself in loving ways for one moment, regardless of the pain I have had in my life.

[rolypoly]

Ceoli, thanks for the link. Good read.

RP, I thought after I wrote all that, of course, you and Mono have a similar situation. I mean, you're married and he's monogamous with you. His needs seem to be met so...

As long as you don't have expectations that you receive that title in return and keep yourself from being used or hurt because of it, then why not.

I definitely don't have expectations and he meets so many of my needs. The more I explore what's going on for me, I am realizing that it has absolutely nothing to do with him or the nature of our relationship. Old wounds are resurfacing and bringing a lot of sadness.

Not sure where to put the sadness or what else to do other than just recognize it's there. I need to reread that thread that River posted. ;)

...I feel like Dora Carrington and her love for Lytton Strachey. Carrington, very good movie.

[MonoVCPHG]

I mean, you're married and he's monogamous with you. His needs seem to be met so...

.

Surpassed is a far more accurate word.

[rolypoly]

Surpassed is a far more accurate word.

Awww!

I do this readily regardless if someone loves me back even a titch.

RP, do you ever feel negative emotions from loving someone who only loves you a titch back? (Guilty, sheepish, silly, invasive...)??

[redpepper]

Awww!



RP, do you ever feel negative emotions from loving someone who only loves you a titch back? (Guilty, sheepish, silly, invasive...)??

No I don't actually, I'm not a negative person in general really and I find that if I were to experience negative emotions because I am not getting anything in return I would really have to look at what the purpose is for my being there. That purpose doesn't have to come in the form of receiving love back. It could be any number of things... if I wanted it to be love, then I would have to look at whether or not the situation is healthy for me to be in.

I am proud that I can give without receiving directly. It gets returned to me ten fold in so many ways... I really see it as a gift to ME to love someone because of this. I have seen how it softens people in ways that I never expected and that is a big gift to everyone, not just them or me... love really does change how people think and act in the world...

Maybe I learned it from my work with people with developmental disabilities as I see it as my job to love them, take care of their needs, advocate for them and treat them with dignity and respect. That kind of giving has huge returns in the most pure, uncluttered form... there is nothing like a hug from someone with downs (for example) to know what pure, trusting love is. I could go on all day with examples from my work. I have really learned everything I needed to know from my clients in terms of trusting "individuals," not "people" in general.

Each person is different and should be trusted from day one... that trust can be broken, sure, but more often than not at this age and stage in my life, the people I met (also in my cohort) have been through stuff and know the value of trust. It really seems that I offer them a clean slate when I trusted them. One that they can then put value on using the wisdom they have learned along the way.... that trust generally seems to be respected much more than it ever did when I was young and my cohort was just starting out with the trust thing. More often than not they cherish it and use it to heal when they do everything not to break it...

Love and trust seem to go hand in hand it seems... we trust others to take care of us in our vulnerable state of loving them.. I can totally see how old wounds would resurface and old sadness. I hope that this person is worthy of your trust and takes care of your heart roly... perhaps telling him all this might help. If it doesn't fit to trust him that much then perhaps your sadness is due to the fact that he is not the right one to direct your love to in the depth that you want to give... no harm in that, it just means that you will need to make sure you are free enough to be able to give to the next person who perhaps could take care of your heart as it should be and needs to be.

[rolypoly]

I were to experience negative emotions because I am not getting anything in return I would really have to look at what the purpose is for my being there

I hear what you're saying. I was thinking more along the lines of others being uncomfortable because they don't want to receive love from someone they don't love back the same way...

It gets returned to me ten fold in so many ways...

That's wonderful! And yes, it does get returned in other ways, doesn't it. Hmm, maybe there's a broader way to look at how this can all fit together in one's life. A loves B who loves C who loves A... everyone is giving and receiving love in their own capacity. Nice way to look at it.

I've worked with the developmentally disabled also and I know exactly what you mean. It's actually been a bit scary for me to feel so much love from someone with Down's and realize there are still parts of me that are afraid to be loved. Phew. Wonderful that you do this RP! You seem like a neat lady.

I hope that this person is worthy of your trust and takes care of your heart roly... perhaps telling him all this might help. If it doesn't fit to trust him that much then perhaps your sadness is due to the fact that he is not the right one to direct your love to in the depth that you want to give...

We're still getting to know each other and going slowly, but so far, he definitely seems like he is worthy of my trust. He is forthcoming about things personal to him. He shares his feelings when he knows what they are. He allows me to feel what I feel, doesn't label or judge, just smiles. He shows care about my well-being. He makes sure to accommodate my allergies, makes sure I'm comfortable, etc. I've told him most of what I feel, but the time we spend together feels pretty intense, so I want to give space for things to evolve in their own way.

The sadness I feel, I'm pretty sure, has 100% to do with triggers from childhood. Loving a dad who was never there and pushed me away. Crying myself to sleep because I wanted daddy. That sort of thing. Being close to someone often brings this up for me. Sometimes, people associate pain with love because that's what their experiences with love have been. I also lost my mother not that long ago, so love brings a lot of sadness with it for me...

Thanks for helping me externalize this. :)

[bookworm]

I'm in a complicated relationship that fits here. I am the secondary to the one I am primary. And I am primary to the one who is my secondary. It all seems kind of backwards, and if I let myself think about it, it kinda makes my head spin. But it works this way, and I know it could only work this way bc of the personalities of the ppl involved. We actually tried it the other way in the begining and it just didn't work. I ended up ending it with the now secondary guy but after a couple of months and much discussion we worked it out this way. And it has been good since. Its all about balance.

[Ceoli]

Balance is best achieved when there's good communication. This made me think of a friend of mine who was in a primary partnership for six years and the last couple of years were fraught with lots of drama and hurt. They still very much loved each other but it was also pretty clear that things weren't working. But instead of breaking up, they allowed their partnership evolve to a more secondary kind. They had been living together. He moved out and got his own place and they continued seeing and loving each other, but with the understanding that their relationship was no longer about living together and all of the other pieces that go with it. It was a bit of a bittersweet transition for them. They definitely had pieces of their relationship that they mourned, but they still had each other and they were able to let a lot of that pain and drama go.

I always think that a great deal of our pain comes from clinging to how we *think* things should be instead of letting go and allowing things to be the way they should be.

[bookworm]

I always think that a great deal of our pain comes from clinging to how we *think* things should be instead of letting go and allowing things to be the way they should be.

I love that, I think you are exactly right. We are taught from the time we are little about what the "norm" should be but thats not what works for everybody.

[redpepper]

I always think that a great deal of our pain comes from clinging to how we *think* things should be instead of letting go and allowing things to be the way they should be.

Well said Ceoli! We should all be following our hearts rather than what we are told is our hearts.

[rolypoly]

bookworm, I'm curious to know what specifically changed within your relationships when you changed who was primary/secondary?

Amount of time spent together? How much/whether or not you say I love you? Living arrangements? Talk of children? ??

[rolypoly]

What a great story! I once suggested to a now ex that instead of breaking up, we become secondary, but it didn't work in our case. Nice to know it has for others.

I'm wondering what exactly defines a relationship. What makes a relationship primary?

I think I need to start another thread.....

[bookworm]

I feel O is primary bc I base my schedule around when I am able to spend time with him. I actually spend more time with K, i don't really know how to explain it. I'm not able to have kids, so it has nothing to do with that. I love them both, and I love them differently, but O just comes first.

[rolypoly]

Hmm. So many possibilities.

[bookworm]

Hmm. So many possibilities.

And so many complications lol.

[rolypoly]

lol

[sunnydee]

bookworm, I'm curious to know what specifically changed within your relationships when you changed who was primary/secondary?

Amount of time spent together? How much/whether or not you say I love you? Living arrangements? Talk of children? ??

Me, too, curious. How does it work? How can you tell who's primary and who's secondary? I can understand if you live with someone, it's probably pretty clear, but if you don't.... How do people define this?

I don't live with anyone, so I think my definition of primary has to do with the level of attachment, trust, disclosure, etc. but I'm not sure I could just choose to put someone at one level or another.

[rolypoly]

Hey sunnydee. I think, though this is all still formulating for me, that I'm the same. The amount of attachment definitely has a lot to do with it.

I am lovers with a woman, 'D', that I love very much, but I'm not in love with. I respect her, I love seeing her, we have fun, and she's dynamo in the sack ;) but I know that her love is with her gf. I don't miss her the way I miss someone I'm in love with. I don't feel all gushy about spending my life with her, etc.

Trust and disclosure for me are pretty much across the board. There's not much that 'D' doesn't know about me. I trust her on many levels. I feel safe crying in front of her, being open to whatever it is she needs to express/do/be.

I guess the difference between primary and secondary is how much I'm willing to change my life around in order to be with that person. Hmm, gotta think about that one...

[sunnydee]

I am lovers with a woman, 'D', that I love very much, but I'm not <i>in</i> love with.


This is so interesting that you say it like that. I feel a little old-fashioned/monogacentric using such phrases, but I feel exactly that way, too. And, of course, there's no really good definition for being "in love" either, but we know what it feels like, right? And we know it's different?

I'm in a LDR right now where I'm sure that, if anyone is, he's my primary attachment, the only person I would say I'm in love with, the one relationship I'd be awfully depressed about if it ended. I think he would probably say he doesn't have a primary right now, rather he says there's someone he's "closest" to, someone living in the same time zone. :P We haven't defined anything because we only met physically once months ago, but now he's finally coming to visit and we are going to "see where it goes." In these few months and long distance, I've been fine with feeling he's my primary connection while dating freely here at home and knowing I'm not his. Not so sure that would work for me, though, in the same city. Who knows? Shrug.

[rolypoly]

Huh, it's all so open, eh? I mean, I just defined primary as how much I'll change my life around to be with someone, but that doesn't include LDR, because if it's long-distance, then one of the things the two people aren't changing is their location. Rearraging schedules to talk to each other on the phone is a way to accommodate each other so...

So good that you feel good about the way things are with him, ie: him being your primary, while dating freely and knowing you're not "his".

I'm not sure I understand how feeling monogacentric relates to loving someone but not being in love?

roly

[rolypoly]

Huh, it's all so open, eh? I mean, I just defined primary as how much I'll change my life around to be with someone, but that doesn't include LDR, because if it's long-distance, then one of the things the two people aren't changing is their location. Rearraging schedules to talk to each other on the phone is a way to accommodate each other so...

So good that you feel good about the way things are with him, ie: him being your primary, while dating freely and knowing you're not "his".

I'm not sure I understand how feeling monogacentric relates to loving someone but not being in love?

roly

[bookworm]

I think that is a good definition of primary. I re-arrange my life to be with my primary, altho it seems like I spend more time with my secondary. I love them both, but it seems like maybe on different levels. I would be pretty devestated if I lost either of them, but probably more so my primary. There's been a few times we have almost broken up (me and O) but I just couldn't let him go.

[rolypoly]

Aww :)

[sunnydee]

I've definitely rearranged my life around this connection. And now that we are both coming up on vacation time, we will be changing locations, too, at least for that time period. It's more to do with where I feel my emotional center is, though, or my level of attachment or whatever we want to call it. It's especially easy to see since I have other relationships to compare it to. I've dated a lot since LDR and I met (he's absolutely the reason I am now identifying as poly) and I really haven't become very attached beyond fond friendship to anyone else so far and, even though it maybe hasn't been the "smart" thing to do, I know it's because I'm keeping my life open to see what happens with LDR when we meet again.

I think I better leave the monogacentric language discussion for another thread so I don't hijack this one. :P Because, originally, we were asking bookworm how those relationships work.

[rolypoly]

sunnydee, it might take a while before you attach beyond friendship with someone else. It was a major adjustment for me when I first came out as poly and had permission to explore other relationships.

where I feel my emotional center is
I like the way you phrase this. One of the things I've been exploring lately is how to have a primary partner without shifting my core strength from "me" to "us". Hmm, how do I explain this? Staying centered and grounded in my life while also accommodating the needs and emotions of another person. It's freakin' hard!

[sunnydee]

sunnydee, it might take a while before you attach beyond friendship with someone else. It was a major adjustment for me when I first came out as poly and had permission to explore other relationships.


I like the way you phrase this. One of the things I've been exploring lately is how to have a primary partner without shifting my core strength from "me" to "us". Hmm, how do I explain this? Staying centered and grounded in my life while also accommodating the needs and emotions of another person. It's freakin' hard!

I'm coming from a unique circumstance, I think, that has made this possible. I was just dumped out of a long monogamous relationship at the end of summer, so I had no intention of attaching to ANYBODY. I was planning to be single, single, single (poly, while I had once considered such ideas, did not occur to me). Then, in my first real day of singlehood, through bizarre movements and alignments of the universe, which seems to take a keen interest in my love life, I met Super PolyGuy. Well, I thought, perfect, HE certainly won't want a "relationship." Ah, the best laid plans.... so a one night stand to kick off my new singlehood turned into a three day fling and then a three month LDR and... well, we'll see. won't we? The only reason this survived my initial horror at becoming attached is that it was long distance. Had he been local I probably would have run screaming, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. So I've had an amazing introductory intensive in becoming poly cradled in the loving attention of someone I didn't have to learn to live with so soon so that I COULD be "centered and grounded in my life." It's been pretty darn perfect so far. Now, adelante! :) Ah, so, to bring it back on topic. This is the reason he's primary to me, having been so influential, but I'm not primary to him, because we live apart, etc.

[rolypoly]

I never know what to say when I don't have a response to what someone's written ;)
I'd like to say: I read your post. Now I understand more about you. Don't have much to add. Yup. LOL! It sounds so dry.

[bookworm]

One of the things I've been exploring lately is how to have a primary partner without shifting my core strength from "me" to "us". Hmm, how do I explain this? Staying centered and grounded in my life while also accommodating the needs and emotions of another person. It's freakin' hard!

I agree, its very hard. I get so used to spending my life one way for a time, and then things shift as schedules change and life gets switched around for a time. I want to be fair to all involved and many times wish there was more than one of me.

[Ceoli]

Roly, Bookworm and Sunny: This thread is a really cool read. Thanks for such great self-analysis of yours stories :)

[redpepper]

I agree, its very hard. I get so used to spending my life one way for a time, and then things shift as schedules change and life gets switched around for a time. I want to be fair to all involved and many times wish there was more than one of me.

Oh how I understand this....

thanks for all your sharing... I didn't have anything to say, but I am following along. Just to acknowledge that I have read your posts ;)

[rolypoly]

HAHA, thanks RP and Ceoli.

[bookworm]

Roly, Bookworm and Sunny: This thread is a really cool read. Thanks for such great self-analysis of yours stories :)

Thanks, its really nice to have a place to come to and ppl to talk to about all these aspects.