how important is it that everyone be friends?

[purpledreamer]

i was wondering if anyone had any advice on how necessary it is to have a friendship with your loves other loves, or just to be friendly. I've been dating someone for at short while, and i had an initial understanding that their primary relationship was an happy poly one. I hoped to develop a friendship with his g/f, & began to initially, however it seems now that she is actually mono & not really at peace with their whole situation or relationship and this has lead to a whole heap of dramas. (which seem to flow into my headspace) & this sparks all sorts of guilt for me also as i feel that my relationship is hurting her. I feel torn because i have lots of love & compassion for her and almost feel a nurturing instinct toward her, but i also care very much for the person i am seeing-and he means far too much to me that i want to continue seeing him regardless of his g/f's issues. Is this heartless of me? Should i try to be friends with his g/f or just give her space? Any advice around this appreciated. Thanks.

[MonoVCPHG]

IMO...this truly depends on where you plan on taking the relationship or the expected depth of connection. If the nature of your relationship is one where you sustain essentially separate lives, or perhaps a more casual involvement, then it probably isn't necessary. If you are looking for more integration or want to share in more of the time of your partner then you'll probably need to at least be friendly.

Depth will be the key I believe. The idea of having a deep relationship without getting to know huge parts of your partner's life seems almost unobtainable to me. The unseen impact and influence of another person they love is a huge aspect of their lives. It will affect your life as well. I would much rather be comfortable with that aspect then live a life where you essentially pretend it does not exist.

If you are looking for a more "surface" relationship then I don't see the need to get overly involved with other aspects of their life.

My own relationship includes love and a deep level of caring/respect for both of Redpepper's other relationships. It wouldn't be healthy for me if it did not and would have a negative affect on all of us, just like if one of them were negative towards me. It inevitably would not be sustainable and seeing as we have long term goals in mind that would not work for us.

Hope this helps and I think you have a great attitude in wanting to embrace his other relationship :)

[ladyjools]

i think that it is important if you want something long term,
montianboy did have a girlfriend for neary a year that refused to see me, we talked a couple of times via email but she was not ok with meeting me and at first this really bothered me but then i realised that he cared about her and i loved and trusted him enough to let him continue with that relationship and consider my needs too, regardless of the fact that i found it hurtful that she refused to meet me,

but
if the relationship was to get any more serious, they fell in love and she wanted to be a bigger part of his life i don't think it would work and in the end they split up becuase she was playing games,

perhaps friendship is not the most important thing, but to be able to talk understand and work through problems, respect each other is the most important thing,

have you thought about writing her a letter, explaining how you feel?

Jools

[redpepper]

for me when my husband dates someone it is mandatory that I at least know the person and appreciate them. I would want to be able to have them over for supper, call on them with my concerns when I have them and invite them to places to socialize with me and my husband.

I don't know what you definition of friend is but mind is akin to my love relationships and has similar depth or potential to be deep... I don't think that is necessary, but I think it is at least healthy to be able to be comfortable around each other.

It's also mandatory that my partners are the same with my husband... there has to be a good fit all around otherwise it seems to just fizzle out for us due to lack of depth and therefore eventual boredom.

[purpledreamer]

thanks for the advice guys. Jools- i did actually write her a letter, however didn't get any feedback so not too sure how it was recieved. A few things for me to have a good long think about from your comments. I agree about friendliness being a bare minimum. I am still struggling a bit with old modes of thinking telling me i am doing something wrong by dating 'someone else's boyfriend' which i think has thrown a few spanners in the works for me feeling guilty and as tho i'm 'bad'. I'm not sure if its just my projection but i also feel like this is how she sees me which makes it difficult for me to relate without feeling guilty or remorseful almost for 'causing trouble' in her relationship. I then flip to feeling defensive of myself because on another level i know i've done nothing wrong. I'm sure this battle of the conscience is normal as ppl start out in poly relationships for the first time.. Anyways, Thanks again all.

[dearprudence]

My ideal is that if my husband cares for someone, I want to care for that person, too, and vice versa. I want to socialize, have dinner together, enjoy each other's company. What I've recently learned is that this doesn't always happen right away. And me being welcoming and generous at the beginning of my husband's other relationship may not make her issues go away, or at least subside. We moved too fast to that dynamic, and it didn't work. Now we have to back up and start over, and I'm not open to hanging out with her or her sleeping over until she deals with her stuff.

@purpledreamer, I think you need to give her the space she needs. If you wrote her a letter and she didn't reply, that's the most you can do for right now. It's very difficult when you are not able to communicate the way you want to. But you have to respect the limits someone may have at the moment. I wish you the best. Be patient :)

[nikkiana]

There are really two questions here, one "How important is it that everyone be friends?" and two, "What are you supposed to do when you're starting to date someone who's already in another relationship, and that relationship starts to begin to have problems in reaction to the involvement with yourself?"

To the first, I tend to agree with what MonoVCPHG said... it depends on your expected depth of relationship. The more integrated you want your life to be with a partner's, the more important it becomes to be friends or at least friendly enough to be able to have a discussion with that person's metamours. If you're intending on keeping the relationship more casual, it's less necessary, but often helps.

However, close friendships don't always develop out of thin air either... sometimes it takes time to develop trust. Sending a letter to her was a good way to extend an olive branch to her I think. She may not respond now because she isn't ready, but because you made that effort in the beginning, it's possible she'll remember that and be comfortable enough to go to you in the future if there's something that concerns her. I think you've done the best you can in this situation.

To the second, this is one of the grey areas, I have often felt. When people are new to polyamory, it has seemed like (at least to me) that people's philosophy toward poly was often more advanced than their communication or personal reflection skills, and while both partners were philosophically on board to open up their relationship, they didn't necessarily do their homework and prepare for how they were going to handle it when it actually happened. Not that going over hypothetical situations is going to necessarily cover everything that could possibly happen, but it's good practice for figuring out how to communicate when unexpected things do happen. That being the case, I think often times people who were philosophically open to being open end up fumbling their way at first and make crutial communication mistakes which lead to drama and problems.... that's not to say that newbies are bad to be involved with and avoid them at all costs because they don't know what they're doing, but you ought to be aware of what's going on so you can make an informed decision on whether it's best to stay or go.

[Tahirabs]

just personaly, I could never date someone who I my husband could see as being part of our family. I am new to this and I know I've only had the one girlfriend, but if my husband did not want her as part of our family, long term, I wouln't be dating her. That is just how I feel, but I agree with anyone it is more about what you and everyone involved want. If you are open and honest and talk about what you all want you will figure out what the relationship "titles/roles" are suppose to be. Lastly I wanted to add that if the third party involved isn't willing to even talk (e-mail, phone, anything) than the honest/openness will never come and I don't think the whole thing will work at all.

Hope you works it out.

[lulu]

I'm in a new relationship where my boyfriend is also dating his X-wife. It's a fairly equal "Vee" agreement. I've felt uncomfortable in situations where we all attend the same event and "hang out". In addition, at the end of the night there is always the conflict. They are both ok with us all sleeping in the same room, and being abstinent (or being sexual). But I am uncomfortable. So then, I'll choose to leave and go home. But that is uncomfortable for me as well because I feel left out. It seems I can't find a comfortable scenario, so I've chosen to not hang out with both of them at the same time as long as it can be avoided. I'm fine with knowing that he's seeing her, but it is difficult for me to have a close relationship with her and seeing their affection. She is very uncomfortable that I don't want to spend time with the two of them together and says she feels left out. She thinks I need to be able to do this if I want the relationship to work. Do I? I don't really see why I need to force myself into that situation. Basically, when I find out we're all going to be at the same place at the same time, I sometimes choose to not go. Or sometimes I might choose to go and deal with my jealousy and discomfort. What do you think is the appropriate course of action in this situation?

[MonoVCPHG]

What do you think is the appropriate course of action in this situation?

Have a threesome...seriously, that'll take the edge away from seeing any affection between them and vice versa. I've never had an issue with seeing Redpepper and her husband being affectionate but I always felt a little awkward when she would show me affection in front of him. This was totally my issue I think.

Throw in a threesome and little kisses and hugs or just all sitting on the couch doesn't seem like such a big deal at all.....seriously, it was freeing and took us all to a more bonded place. The closer you all become the more you will be amazed at how natural this can be.

Threesomes aside, push yourself in this area if you want something bigger from this relationship.

Just to clarify, it was affection centered around Redpepper.....I'm not bi...not that there is anything wrong with that ;)

Peace and Love
Mono

[lulu]

Yeah, that's been a consideration. But that's a new thing for me, plus I'm just not convinced that's the only solution. I'm also feeling averse to this other woman. I don't feel a connection with her so it's making the desire to do a threesome less than desirable.

[LovingRadiance]

She is very uncomfortable that I don't want to spend time with the two of them together and says she feels left out. She thinks I need to be able to do this if I want the relationship to work. Do I? I don't really see why I need to force myself into that situation. Basically, when I find out we're all going to be at the same place at the same time, I sometimes choose to not go. Or sometimes I might choose to go and deal with my jealousy and discomfort. What do you think is the appropriate course of action in this situation?

I would say you need to deal with your jealousy. Accept that it is, then figure out why it is. It's not "because of her" it's something in you. So what is that in you? Deal with that-all the way. First of all.

For me in a relationship-I NEED my husband to be friendly and hang out with me and my bf. If that's not possible-then the V isn't possible. AND he's considering someone as a possible gf and I a likewise pursuing friendship iwth her-because if she and I can't be friends-they aren't going to be a couple. It's too complicated since time is limited and as his wife who shares 4 kids with him-I have his time.

That said-I don't show a great deal of affection towards the bf in front of my husband. But I do show a great deal of affection towards DH in front of Bf.... it doesn't bother bf. It used to-and I limited it both ways as much as possible at that time.

So I think maybe the answer is both. You should be working to deal with your issues if you want to retain the relationship. But they could also reduce pointed sexual affection in front of you as well.

[LovingRadiance]

clarification/fyi-
my husband isn't bi and he's not "into" my bf in ANYWAY either.


It is QUITE possible to have a 3some with a person you aren't interested in if they aren't the center of attention. In younger years I had two men. They were NOT interested in each other AT ALL. But they knew I was interested in both of them.
They took the opportunity to tease and pleasure me. They never touched one another AT ALL, not even on accident on the hand or anything.
They "split up the body" in quarters and agreed that they would remain in only two quarters at a time (each) and never the two to meet.

[nikkiana]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the sentiment that having a threesome would be a good idea. I would NOT recommend initiating a threesome unless that's something that you're really into doing. If you're already uncomfortable being around your partner's other significant other (to be herein shorted to OSO) being in an intimate situation with both of them present is likely not going to help things, on the contrary, it's likely to bring up even more insecurities and drama, and depending on the personalities involved it may make it more difficult to communicate effectively. (Or, at least has been my experience).

That said, both you and the OSO have perfectly valid feelings about this. Some people are okay with giving their blessing to the other relationship but prefer to keep their distance because it's too uncomfortable to see their partner with someone else. Other people, like the OSO, have the need to be friendly and occasionally included in things with their partner's OSO because otherwise their imagination runs rampant on all the fun things they must be missing out on.

It's hard to come out with a blanket answer to the question of "Will this work if I'm not friends with her?" because quite frankly, it depends.... If being friends is what she needs to feel comfortable with this arrangement, and you feel that you can't be around her, chances are things aren't going to work out or are going to be very drama prone.

The key, I think, is working toward some sort of compromise.

First, I think it's worthwhile to sit down and do some thinking and try to figure out what about seeing them together really bothers you. How I do this is to write down everything that's bothering me about a situation no matter how significant or insignificant it may seem. Then, I go over my list (usually later, when i'm less emotional and thinking more logically) and figure out what I wrote which were legitimate concerns, which were just me being upset about things that really didn't matter in the grand scheme of things, and which were things that I needed to discuss with my partner for reassurance. Identifying why you feel the way you feel is a great exercise for personal growth and it helps you be more self-aware so you can communicate effectively with others.

Second, don't feel that you ought to be comfortable hanging out with both of them on the living room couch right away. Start slow with baby steps. You mentioned that sometimes when you find out that they're both going to an event, you avoid it but at other times you deal with your jealousy and uncomfortable feelings and go. This is a wonderful place to start. I'd try to make it a point to go to the events you want to go to, especially if she and your partner are going to be there. It'll be uncomfortable at first, I'm sure, but often times part of relieving anxiety around a situation is repeated exposure to it. Going anyway, and then coming home and examining why you're feeling uneasy about the things you do, and then going out and then trying again next time does tend to make things easier over time.

Once you are comfortable with going to events in public space where your partner and his OSO are present, all of you can re-evaluate what your needs are in regard to the situation at hand.

So, short answer... The appropriate thing to do in this situation is to use this as an opportunity to grow as a person. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the sentiment that having a threesome would be a good idea. I would NOT recommend initiating a threesome unless that's something that you're really into doing. If you're already uncomfortable being around your partner's other significant other (to be herein shorted to OSO) being in an intimate situation with both of them present is likely not going to help things, on the contrary, it's likely to bring up even more insecurities and drama, and depending on the personalities involved it may make it more difficult to communicate effectively. (Or, at least has been my experience).

)

Agreed...this was based on my positive experience but me and Redpepper's husband were already very comfortable and close as frineds. There is a difference in my situation.

[Manno]

Nothing set me at ease more about our new decisions than hanging out with my wife's boyfriend to ease everything.

It put it all into perspective and built more respect for him and my wife and I've found that I really cherish their relationship and I *want* them to be happy.

As for what Mono said, I think that is a way to radically fix a problem, but whatever works... sometimes an extreme approach fixes things, but then again, their discomfort might really not be about the physical side of things.

[bookworm]

I don't think its an absolute necessity for everybody to be great friends. Both my bf are tolerable to each other when they happen to run into each other, but we don't make it a point to all be together at once. I have my time with O and then I have my time with K. O has more jealousy issues than K, and bc of that I don't discuss K much with him. K is very open, and altho he is bi he is not attracted to or sexual in any way with O. K has his own bf who is very nice and I am quite content to be with. He spends time with K and also with the both of us. All relationships are different, and its just whatever works best for all involved.

[peripheral]

I am in the exact situation you describe, purpledreamer. I will say that the only thing that has helped me is to talk about it to my bf. He is pretty understanding of my feelings and how conflicted I am, because I really don't think his primary partner is totally down with this. I also had to let go of the idea that I am responsible for their relationship or for any problems in it. As compassionate as I feel towards his partner, it's up to her to tell him if she is would prefer to be monogamous and if that's a dealbreaker for her.

It also helps that I have another bf who keeps me busy and doesn't allow me to get too immersed in their drama.

[MonoVCPHG]

As for what Mono said, I think that is a way to radically fix a problem, but whatever works

Just to clarify LOL!! There was no problem between us..it was a very bonding moment which was enabled by our existing level of comfort. A result was a deepening level of comfort.
As people always say, to each thier own, it all depends on what you want from your relationships. We seek family. We are together a lot and want our time to be completely natural and comfortable.

Threesomes would certainly not work for every one...Redpepper seemed quite ok with it though;)

[Manno]

I wasn't trying to downplay it as a viable solution, nor was I insinuating that it was a problem that needed to be solved for you. I'm in no way an expert on this situation.

[MonoVCPHG]

I wasn't trying to downplay it as a viable solution, nor was I insinuating that it was a problem that needed to be solved for you. I'm in no way an expert on this situation.

Me either LOL! I'm just feeling my way around too....although there is a fair bit of light where I am now thank god.

[LuvNWonder]

Of course it's not the right solution for everyone but when it was agreed that a sexual relationship was desireable between my wife and her bf it was absolutely essential that we be together as a threesome first.
I had to see that he was loving and supportive, he had to see that I was okay with the relationship, and she needed that night of passionate embrace between all three of us to believe it was going to be alright. It did not remove all trace of trepidation for any of us on the day they were together alone, but it took the scary away.
It should be stated that our first years of non-monagomy usually included threesomes but the emotional impact of this situation was...powerful

first edit didn't seem to take. Forgive if this is all screwed up.

I forgot to address the initial question. At this time we feel that a good budding friendship and at least comfort with an occasional night all together in bed is a very strong guideline for any relationship either of is take part in. We won't refuse love if it comes calling, but we really *want* our relationships to be between all three or four of us as completely as possible. Her bf and I were friends within minutes of talking with one another and I'm very sad (as is he, I believe) that my work has me so far away from the relationship. I literally was developing a crush and he was very comfortable.

So for us, friends all around - or better, if at all possible. My recent girlfriend was not willing to have such a relationship with my wife - even friends did not seem possible - so I'm left now with a great deal of time to reflect on what a great guy I think I am, hang out in forums, and read :)

sorry. I have a habit of rambling.

Brian

[GroundedSpirit]

I totally agree with what seems to be the overall sentiments of the group here that at minimum a level of friendship is really important for any long term stability.
I think any "poly" relationship that involves one of the group really NOT being poly is dangerous water to cross and if there's someone kind of "out of the loop" then it's the seeds of disaster. We end up back at that all important "C" word - communication. If you can't all communicate openly & honestly the hole is in the boat so to speak. Just a question of how long before she sinks.
A possible additional note to these situations that seem to crop up a lot....
Whenever we have found situations of a possible poly/mono connection, we've learned to be VERY careful - if not avoid them entirely - unless we have a long, sit down and talk session with all involved INCLUDING especially the mono person.
It's all to common in these type of situations for that one mono person to be "just going along to keep peace", hoping it's a phase that their poly-inclined partner is going through etc, and that internally they are roiling and in extreme anguish. We don't want to be a party to that unless there is some extreme extenuating circumstance we discover that seems to justify it. We've never found that circumstance to date !
So advice here is - be careful, put up your antennas, go slow and be honest about what you detect - even if it exposes a reality different than the dream.

[redpepper]

Of course it's not the right solution for everyone but when it was agreed that a sexual relationship was desireable between my wife and her bf it was absolutely essential that we be together as a threesome first.
I had to see that he was loving and supportive, he had to see that I was okay with the relationship, and she needed that night of passionate embrace between all three of us to believe it was going to be alright. It did not remove all trace of trepidation for any of us on the day they were together alone, but it took the scary away.

Thanks for putting this on here. Mono and I didn't have our first time together like this and I wouldn't suggest it for everyone, but once we all started sleeping together and having sex together occasionally it changed the dynamic to something more comfortable. It seems that when there is a bit of an imbalance going on we spend time together in this way and it balances up again. We all believe it will be "alright" afterwards and it takes the scary away. The actual act is very different than when we are alone in that we all give each other space and are respectful of one anothers "turn." It really is indicative of how we are in life, but focused and under a microscope kind of. If that makes sense...??

When my husband and I were dating a man last year (that happened to be cheating on his wife, unbeknown to us. Lesson learned on that one! Always talk to the wife first!) It became evident that this man was in love with me and I had strong feelings for him at the time too. My husband picked up on that in our time together sexually and we changed our relationship... I don't think any of us would of picked up on the subtleties of our relationship if we had not all been having sex together. This is certainly true now with Mono.

[Sweetheart]

Our own experiences have varied. We have had a serious FMF relationship as well as a semi-serious MFM relationship. In addition, there have been a couple V relationships. Each situation was completely different. In our FMF relationship, we each had a very different relationship with her, and never had a threesome together. People got along in different degrees. In the MFM relationship, it began between the two of them, but I had already met him, and was comfortable with him. By the time we had our threesome, there was already a certain level of trust and friendship, so it was a small step. In that relationship, there were never any negative emotions between the three of us, and in that regard we were very lucky. We just had a great chemistry. In our Vs, we haven't always been as fortunate. What we have discovered through hard experience is that if anyone in the mix is uncomfortable with anyone else, we do everything we can to iron it out right at the start. If, after lots of kindness, humor, affection, communication & reaching out, the discomfort still exists, then it's just not going to work, no matter how badly we want it to. Sometimes one of us just gets a bad vibe about somebody, and can't seem to shake it. Since jealousy hasn't really been an issue for us, we always listen to each other if one of us gets an intuition about somebody new. We've learned to trust each other on this, and it has paid off. We never say, "Don't see so-and-so", but we might talk about red flags that we've noticed. Basically, if it is going to be something long-term, then everyone has to be friends (at the very least), and be able to communicate freely with everyone else involved, without a go-between.

[MonoVCPHG]

Last night Redpepper came over to my house as is normal two nights a week. Her husband seemed very quiet and withdrawn which concerned us both. Redpepper offered to hang out with him and I was certainly willing to fore go our night if it would have made him feel better.
He did not want us to come back or change our plans and Redpepper called him a couple of times to confirm this and see how he was doing.
Today I offered to help him do some maintenance on their rental suite. We both tackled it and got it done in no time which freed him up to send more time with Redpepper before out upcoming night of dancing (tonight in fact - A b-day thing for Redpepper).
I then got to ask him how he was doing and if things were good. He opened up and everything is good.
Sometimes it is hard for me to not associate every problem or disconnect they have with my presence in his life.
We are friends and through that we all get a sense of support and it makes this experience so much better in our dynamic.

In our level of integration and vision of the future there really is no other option but to not only know each other, but to love each other.

[Bowvine]

What about if you haven't met your partner's other interest and she is avidly against reaching out to him. Is this a red flag?

[Ceoli]

What about if you haven't met your partner's other interest and she is avidly against reaching out to him. Is this a red flag?

For me, that would be a red flag. I would want to know why she's vehemently against that.

[redpepper]

What about if you haven't met your partner's other interest and she is avidly against reaching out to him. Is this a red flag?

I'm not sure what you mean by she isn't wanting to reach out. Do you mean she doesn't want you to?

If that is what you mean I would call that a big red flag. To me that isn't poly, but an open relationship. Which is fine but just a different set of rules than poly.

I would wonder what she is hiding or they are hiding and whether or not I am really loved and cared for as much as she says. I would wonder if she were really just checking out if this person was worth leaving me for.

[Bowvine]

She says she doesn't want me to poison their relationship. That it is separate from she and me. She doesn't want ME to talk to him. She has made the ultimatum that if I do I will be dumped.

What you say you would wonder about Redpepper is exactly what I have been thinking. I feel that she has made her other relationship more of a priority than healing ours.

She has said my questioning her is like attacking her, even when I ask calmly. It's a mess, and I don't feel like it is poly either, that she just wants to do what she wants to do without any rules or regard for my feelings. What a mess.

[MonoVCPHG]

She says she doesn't want me to poison their relationship. That it is separate from she and me. She doesn't want ME to talk to him. She has made the ultimatum that if I do I will be dumped.

.

This is not healthy my friend. It reeks of deception and not of a poly aproach.
Especially the "dumping" issue..I doubt this guy even really knows about you.
I think it is you who should do the dumping. Sorry, but you have to look out for yourself in this I think.

[Bowvine]

Yes, one of my big concerns is self preservation and show up for myself. Hardest thing is letting go of someone you love. Because it will hurt to not be around her in the same capacity. I have a very strong relationship with her 3 year old too. It's like these things I can't give up, but in order to love myself I will have to if things don't change.

[MonoVCPHG]

It's like these things I can't give up, but in order to love myself I will have to if things don't change.

Beautiful statement and very true IMO. Not loving yourself is more damaging than denying love for others.

[Bowvine]

I just called her and said, this is hard for both of us. I think it best if we just take some space until Wednesday night (when we're supposed to get together) and see how we feel then. I told her I love her and then I got off the phone. I need to take care of myself so after work today, it's self work I go.

[MonoVCPHG]

Good job my friend. I personally think you're on the right path. Stay strong :)

[redpepper]

I'm so sorry this is what is going on for you. Having chatted with you in PM's I really think at this point if she is saying you will "poison" her relationship she doesn't love you any more. Go find someone who wants to share everything with you and get out before you give her the pleasure of being the first to say its done.

Please ask her to stop saying she is poly too as its bullshit. She doesn't know what the meaning of the word is.

[juliepatchoulie]

Well, I have moved forward....now the only problem I am having is finding the right third party for this relationship I am now in....I really have trouble with acceptance and I know that it is important to be able to interact, omg- I mean I really don't get on too well with most women cause it always ends up being about the same old shit. You guys got a lot of patience and understanding that I do not readily have available, maybe I am jaded!!

[purpledreamer]

so i gave her some space and then recently reached out to her again in the form of an email, expressing my well wishing toward her, and my hopes for up to be friends. That was a few weeks ago and i'm yet to recieve any kind of response. I.ve asked to have a chat with her and my SO in a few days to talk about things. I am hopeful this will sort some things out. I was told yesterday however, that she has recently said she is not happy about him 'sleeping with other women' so i am beginning to wonder if this is her viewpoint, if there will ever be any peace between us, let alone love or friendship. And if this is the case how this will effect my relating with IamWhoiam. Does any one here have any experience with being in a poly relationship where they didn't have peace with their SO's primary partner. And how did they work this? Did they just avoid going over to their house when the partner was there- can it work? I really need some practical advice here. And hoping for some positive stories of making the best of a sticky situation.. I currently feel unwelcome in their home, and have been told not to show affection toward IamWhoam in front of her as it upsets her. Is this a really warped dynamic? Do ppl think there is hope to turn the situation around? Thanks for your input guys. Much appreciated :) and apologies for the lack of formatting, i'm writing from my mobile and have no 'enter' button! *pd*

[GroundedSpirit]

Doesn't seem like a good situation for anyone to me. It's hard to get a complete picture of all the cast from your writing but it "seems" that his SO has has no interest in sharing anything (may or not be accurate?) and no interest in really investigating the pros & cons at all. Again, from your writing, is seems monogamy is her choice/belief system ?
If indeed this is the case I think you'll have to accept the fact that given it's current direction, eventually he is going to be forced to make a choice. Or it may be made for him. Somebody's (everybody?) going to probably get hurt.
So I guess I'd be prepared for the worst.


GS

[purpledreamer]

Thanks for the advice Grounded spirit.
You're right, its not a good situation.

I agree that everyone is getting hurt.

Following his request that he and I don't have sex (or do anything physical that may challenge her) for a period of time, which he says is for him to maintain his peace, I decided that I will not be romantically involved with him.

I didn't feel right waiting around any longer for what I can and can't do, depending on where there relationship is at at any particular moment.

He doesn't seem to really understand what my aversion to this is about, and I believe he thinks it is me being reactive. While there is an element of this, its more an issue of my own integrity. If I compromise my integrity again (having previously agreed to a period of no-sex as requested by her) by complying with a request that I believe would not be in line with with us all being open, honest, and acting with integrity, then I wonder where I draw the line in the future. I also don't see that the request is actually going to SOLVE anything. I therefore see it as a pointless exercise, that just seeks to restrict relating.. I entered into my relationship with him with the understanding that we were going to try and relate WITHOUT restrictions.

I love him a lot, and have decided to give it a few more weeks of being 'just friends' with him, while I await some type of outcome/decision/break up from him and his live in partner.
If this occurs, then I will be open to continue dating him again, however if they can't manage this, then I will have to accept that there is no future for us in this way.

However, I fear that they will just come to another 'temporary outcome', where she says she is willing to accept things, and then another month down the track all the dramas will all start again.

He says that when she gets really 'clear' she realises everything is ok and she is fine with his other relationships, however this seems to be more of a fleeting moment, surrounding by days/weeks or saying its NOT OKAY.

I think he needs to respect what she is saying that she is not happy for him to be seeing other people. But I can see that he doesn't want to accept it. (For the obvious reason that he wants to still be in a relationship with her, as well as me, and his other G/F)

I think that HE needs to make the decision to either remain with her, and have a monogomous relationship, or break up with her, and continue to have polyamorous relationships with me and his other SO.

I don't want to have it be an ultimatum: her or me.
But I think it has come to this.
I can't be with him, if he is in a relationship where one partner is feeling hurt everytime he sees me.
I feel I have some kind of moral responsbility also to not do this.
Or is the responsibility really HIS?

I guess I ALWAYS have the responsbility to myself to do what I feel is right..

hmm.. any advice/reassurance welcome.

I guess I'll just have to see what the next few weeks bring...

[MonoVCPHG]

I can't be with him, if he is in a relationship where one partner is feeling hurt everytime he sees me.
I feel I have some kind of moral responsbility also to not do this.
Or is the responsibility really HIS?

I guess I ALWAYS have the responsbility to myself to do what I feel is right..



Looks like you've answered your own question. Ultimately you have to do what will make you happy and healthy over the long haul. Moments of joy will not sustain you if you are overwhelmed by moments of pain as well. The balance has to be tipped in my opinion. Eventually any pain, uncertainty and fear have to diminish in any relationship in my opinion. How could it be healthy otherwise? Comfort but not complacency.

[StitchwitchD]

Yeah, went through trying to deal with the possibility that she could just declare monogamy on a whim and it'd be all over, I couldn't deal---which is why I came up with rules outlining what I can and can't deal with in a relationship, and if someone can't deal with that, or there's some conflict with the terms their partner has in order for her to feel secure- well, then we can be friends but we can't have a romantic or sexual relationship at this point in time.

If she's showing this much uncertainty, I'd want to wait for a few weeks or months to see if she gets to a more stable point.

[GroundedSpirit]

But I think it has come to this.
I can't be with him, if he is in a relationship where one partner is feeling hurt everytime he sees me.
I feel I have some kind of moral responsbility also to not do this.


Hi Dreamer,

Well, I personally do like and agree with where you seem to have settled on this. It's always a challenge when we sit back and connect to the concept that we're trying to live in a way where we bring the greatest good to those we interact with and minimize any harm. Sometimes it seems we end up in a position of having to sacrifice our own wants and dreams for that to happen. That moral responsibility you speak of. It's often only much later - months, years etc - that the pieces fall into place and we TRULY grasp what the real lesson & need was at a given point in time. But that's no consolation at the time :( But for me, I've discovered, like so many other things, it does get easier with practice. We seem to be faced with that dilemma more & more as we broaden out.

Best wishes.

GS

[TexasBorn21]

I have been in the unique relationship for almost 5 months now..And it is very important to me that I am friends with his wife, because She is an important part of his life also. I also am new to this, and I really want it to work for all of us..The other night we all went out to dinner, a more relaxed atmosphere helped all of us realize what the common ground was, His wife and I email and talk on the phone once in a while. I think He is getting more used to having a wife and a girlfriend and the friendship we have begun to forge with each other.:)

[CielDuMatin]

I have been in the unique relationship for almost 5 months now..And it is very important to me that I am friends with his wife, because She is an important part of his life also. I also am new to this, and I really want it to work for all of us..The other night we all went out to dinner, a more relaxed atmosphere helped all of us realize what the common ground was, His wife and I email and talk on the phone once in a while. I think He is getting more used to having a wife and a girlfriend and the friendship we have begun to forge with each other.:)TexasBorn21, I am very glad that it is working for you - sounds like there are some healthy lines of communication there - doesn't make the problems go away but it definitely makes them easier to resolve when they come up. I have certainly found that in my own experiences.

[juliepatchoulie]

This was very brave-this share- and what it sounds like(especially when you say his wife is getting used to him having a wife and a girlfriend) lets all be sophisticated about these relationships-and what seems to happen is the male is getting all thses 'perks' from this much the way an old school typical European male has in his relationships.....I must ponder all this to put it into words because something just doesn't 'feel' right and yet I cannot put my finger on it. Personally, I would play with dude for awhile and then make him pay bigtime....and no regrets because you shouldn't be treated like that. l8tr

[juliepatchoulie]

Sometimes it isn't simply about sex-it's about intimacy-and as long as he is with you he is emotionally unavailable to her and she has probably seen this because body language doesn't lie.....and I know I seem cynical in my replies...it's just that I am such a realist about stuff like this plus I am older.

[purpledreamer]

Hi everyone,
My relationshp with IamWhoIam ended about 2 weeks ago as a result of all I have posted about not getting resolved on their end, and other factors.

My SO decided to be dishonest with me,and continues to be dishonest with his primary gf, and he also chose to pursure a 4th sexual/intimate relationship while all this drama was going on. I would have thought he would choose to put his energy into working on the relationships he currently had, instead of starting up another...but I guess his new toy seemed like more fun than us old toys..
He also did a few things to show to me how little he cared about me or our relationship and when I told him I was unsure I was, he reacted with complete indifference to my feelings. It was all my fault basically, and he shouldnt need to 'prove' anything. So basically throughout the next week he treated me with similar disinterest. Didn't make any effort to help me feel loved or supported. Just left me to be and deal with everything alone.

I made the decision that this was not a rewarding and supportive relationship for me, and made the decision to end it. Which was hard as I love him so much.
He now maintains that he does care for me a lot. But it seems that he only ever wants to show this when I've pulled away or tried to end things. I'm not sure if he only wants me now, because he can't have me. I guess it makes not difference anyway as I'm moving on with my life.
I hope to maintain a friendship with him, as he really is an amazing person. I've got a lot of forgiveness to do though.. I'm feeling very hurt and let down.

I don't think I will actively seek out polyamorous relationships in the future. I will be open to them if thats what happens, however I really feel like I need a rest now, from dealing with, not only my own relationship, but the constant dramas of IamWhoIam's other relationships. Maybe I am being unfair to Poly, and this is more specifically related to the individuals involved in these particular poly relationships. I just feel so relieved to be off the rollarcoaster ride. To not have to worry about my life be dictacted by someone who doesn't even want to be a part of my life. It just seems so easy and uncomplicated to imagine a two person relationship and just looking at each others needs...
Although I never imagine I will live in a bubble in a two person monogomous relationship... Poly has certainly burst some bubbles for me (in a great way!)

Thanks again for all your interesting thought and advice on this forum. IT has certainly helped me throughout my journey!
Love *PD*

[MonoVCPHG]

Take care, PD

Mono

[CielDuMatin]

PD, I'm sorry that it didn't work out and that you had to go through this rollercoaster ride. I can understand that this would result in you having a bad association with poly. I tell people that just because someone is poly doesn't mean they automatically know how to do good, healthy relationships - and it sounds like he might have been a bad example, at least in this context.

I am glad that the experience opened up some preconceived ideas that you had and I hope that, once the pain and grieving has subsided, you will see some positives that have come out of this.

I wish you luck.

[NeonKaos]

Write this 5000 times:

"Poly relationships are just like mono relationships except there are more people involved."

Being in a one-on-one dynamic does not mean it won't be abusive or unhealthy, just as being in a multi-dynamic does not mean everyone gets their "needs met".

[juliepatchoulie]

Hey PurpleDreamer! Don't Back Down.....that's right....this stuff it is what it is and it ain't rocket science, no, it's much worse LOL because it's its the human condition! Polyamory means 'multiple love' and it simply is what it is...everyone needs some degree of intimacy with someone even if its a pet! And you know I haven't figured anything out except right now I am happier than I have ever been and about to embark on some new adventure ever so carefully, you know that treading lightly thing....however, if this forum did not exist with all of your very cool feedback, well, you know....keepin you updated-joules

[juliepatchoulie]

keeping it simple and you are soooooo right at least some of the time! lol

[purpledreamer]

Write this 5000 times:

"Poly relationships are just like mono relationships except there are more people involved."

Being in a one-on-one dynamic does not mean it won't be abusive or unhealthy, just as being in a multi-dynamic does not mean everyone gets their "needs met".

Yep - what I have learnt is just cos someone claims to be poly, doesn't necesarily mean anything about them (that they are honest or open), other than they are in relationships with more than one person. And I've also learnt, that just because I may choose to be in a Poly relationship doesn't mean I have to accept being treated poorly.

The odd thing was that my family kind of said, "What did you expect" when I spoke about the things that had happened. Like they automatically assumed that because we were in relationships with more than one person, that someone I should have expected that I would be disrespected.

I was having a conversation with my sister about something to do with it and I said, "I know that, by YOUR standards we seem to have thrown all our values out the window (her values being related to monogomy), however you know our relationship is based on the same things as most relationships: love, honesty and respect"

I had a few monogomous relationships too that have been less than respectful also. But it certainly hasn't turned me off relationships for good!

The lesson here for me is to look at what needs I have been having met by attracting less than supportive relationships into my life and what I can change within myself/my behaviours to change this pattern.

I think I will get a better outcome from writing 500 times:
"I LOVE AND RESPECT MYSELF AND ONLY CHOOSE TO BE IN RELATIONSHIPS THAT ARE LOVING AND RESPECTFUL"

[CielDuMatin]

Yep - what I have learnt is just cos someone claims to be poly, doesn't necesarily mean anything about them (that they are honest or open), other than they are in relationships with more than one person. Oh I'd go further than that - I know people who self-identify as poly without having ever been in a relationship with more than one person - they have decided they are interested in this lovestyle but have no experience of really doing it - sometimes their reality is very far from their dreams (and this goes for individuals and couples).

Someone saying they are poly should be the starting point of a conversation, not the end-point. Don't assume ANYTHING about who they are, whether they are more trustworthy, less manipulative, less abusive, whatever. Anyone can say they are poly - literally anyone. There is no "polyamory certificate" that you have to pass some test for, or an organization with entry requirements.

There are people who use poly as an excuse to cheat on their spouses, to "get in your pants", or to "cull someone from the herd" (aka a cowboy/girl).

And there are control freaks and abusers.

...and there are also some wonderfully nice, stable people with their heads firmly screwed on.

So finding out exactly what they mean by polyamory is the next step - finding out what sort of person they are is the next - and both are vital before entering into anything with them.

And I've also learnt, that just because I may choose to be in a Poly relationship doesn't mean I have to accept being treated poorly. Absolutely! If there was one bit of reading I could recommend (and it's not long), I would recommend the article Polyamory for Secondaries (http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html) from Franklin aka tacit. I feel strongly that everyone deserves respect and trust in their relationships.

[Ceoli]

Oh I'd go further than that - I know people who self-identify as poly without having ever been in a relationship with more than one person - they have decided they are interested in this lovestyle but have no experience of really doing it - sometimes their reality is very far from their dreams (and this goes for individuals and couples).


Interesting. I know people who identify as poly and *have* had relationships with more than one person and still get lambasted by reality each time from a seeming inability to learn from their mistakes.

I have learned that while experience is a good thing to look at, it is not a hard and fast measurement of wisdom in a relationship.

[CielDuMatin]

Interesting. I know people who identify as poly and *have* had relationships with more than one person and still get lambasted by reality each time from a seeming inability to learn from their mistakes.*chuckle* Ah yes, Ceoli, VERY good point - I know some like that as well.

I have learned that while experience is a good thing to look at, it is not a hard and fast measurement of wisdom in a relationship.No, far from it. Agreed.