Paradigm Shift to Polyamory

[Manno]

My wife and I have very recently decided to become polyamorous and while the circumstances to us arriving to this point would be shocking to most people, I'm not completely shocked, but I know I have a few things that I need to come to terms with before I move much further.

And while I'm really feeling compelled to write, I'm not sure where I should begin with my post. (midpost: and now I see it will be a dissertation! end of post: yep, very long.)

My wife and I have been together for ten years, and we knew one another for several years before our relationship began, and we sacrificed everything to be with one another, committing to one another before we actually began anything romantic. In that, we're both keenly aware of one another's attractions to other people, her bisexual history made it both fun and exciting for us to people watch from afar and we found that we enjoyed one another flirting and making out with others. Our rule had always been that it was okay to do anything up to sex.

After several years together, we were married and then had a daughter who was heavily dependent on her requiring a great deal of attention for five years. So much that she lost a lot of her identity of self as she took on the responsibility of being "mom." Recently, at six, my daughter's independence has finally arrived. My wife became has finally been able to build some of her identity, has wanted to get out of the house more.

We recently moved across the country to Oregon from the buckle of the bible belt in NW Louisiana. We both sought out to meet new people, and while I've built a solid group of colleagues from work as well as a few fellow transplantees from Louisiana, she's done a bit better building a network of closer friends.

Over the past year, she's developed a friendship with a guy in our new town, but that was very slow at first, as she was still rarely energetic enough to motivate herself to go out. In fact, this summer she was away for several weeks but her friend and I hung out and went to a few parties together. I learned that he was a great guy and I'd hang out with him more, but work has had me bogged down, I'm a school teacher and the school year is still pretty new.

As the recent weeks have unfolded, she's gotten more energy and has wanted to go out more frequently, and usually with him. So I started to realize that a tighter bond had been established between the two. Nothing stated, no problemo.

This Friday, I got home and we had a talk about polyamory an issue with which we've fleetingly discussed in the past (I had friends that called themselves swingers), but nothing formal, no decisions either way. But in our talk, I learned that she really had developed genuine feelings for our friend and that they were fooling around (no surprise), but at no sacrifice to our relationship, and then after we really enjoyed ourselves, she went out.

I usually wait up for her, as she's usually keyed up and wants to tell me about how the night went and if she had someone hit on her or flirt with her, we usually bring that with us into the bedroom as she has done likewise with me over the years.

Friday I had fallen asleep on the couch and woke immediately as I heard the key in the door, it had been a helluva week. But when she come inside our home, she immediately sat down next to me, and told me, with no secrecy, no guilt about what she had done, no desire to hurt, but just honestly, that she had sex with her friend.

It was three a.m., though there are no curfews in our house. But that didn't make it easier for me to think clearly. I did not know what to say, but my biggest surprise was that I was not taken aback at all by this news. It didn't bother me, I felt no jealousy, no rage, and in fact, part of me was absolutely okay that she didn't ask my permission before she went out to do so. (I think I wouldn't have been really cool with that, and I'm not certain if I would have said yes, but I'll get to that part next.)

I was okay with this, but two things started to bother me. The first has been a problem since I realized that their friendship was formulating stronger over the past few weeks: I don't have a close friend right now, someone I can confide in, a male friend, or a platonic relationship, and I began to feel lonely and a little insecure, which leads to my other problem.

I've always been highly confident, sometimes even to a fault, but that has changed over time. During the last six years, our sex life has been severely low. As in sometimes one sexual encounter in several months time, and an entire year after her pregnancy. During that time, I would make advances and be shot down over and over only to have her tell me that if I really wanted to go and find someone to have sex with, I could, but I should know that I would never have sex with my wife again. And while I really wanted to have sexual encounters with female friends of mine, I never pursued them because of those consequences she laid down. While the frequency was low, those that happened were intense and I could not think of sacrificing that connection with my wife. But while I was hopeful, I still felt rejected then, which leads me back to my insecurities. Furthermore, I have been hesitant to pursue any friendship with women whom I was even slightly attracted because I felt like I would hit this impasse and would only be more frustrated in the end. The only apology that was needed early saturday morning, was because she said she feels horrible that she put me through that while she was sexually dormant.

My only problem with how this has gone down is not the manner in which she steered our relationship by sleeping with her friend. In fact, my initial reaction kind of sealed the thought that I have always felt that this lifestyle was really for me, especially after I heard about the emotional void that I heard about from my swinger friends' escapades. But what I have a problem with was the restrictions, frustrations, rejections, and insecurity that came about the past six years of our life. And being that I'm not looking to rush into a secondary relationship, I don't want to resent my wife while she's enjoying hers.

So now, I'm not certain where I go. Should I start searching for someone to help fill this loneliness? I honestly don't know how I would even start looking and then approach someone sounding as lame as, "Hey, you know I'm married, but my wife is totally okay with me dating other women," and I'm fearful of that rejection, damned insecurities.

We've always had a wide open system of communication, and we're not jealous people, and we have a grand sense of partnership in our marriage. However, both know now, I think she's learned a lot more recently, that the traditional closed marriage relationship is for neither of us.

I just want to make sure I don't wind up resenting her in the future because of our past.

Any advice? (and yes, I'm done writing)

[rolypoly]

Thanks for sharing your story. The first thing that strikes me is the imbalance of, what I'm understanding to be, freedom for her to enjoy sex with her friend but the consequence of severing sexual ties with her forever if you do the same. Am I reading this correctly?

[Manno]

Thought I was specific enough...

No, the restrictions of our relationship have been lifted on both sides. I would not believe it would realistic nor do I think I'd still be cool with this if the gates weren't opened on both sides.

-M

[rolypoly]

Thought I was specific enough...

You might very well have been. I have been known to misread. I'm glad that things are balanced, though.

I understand that insecurity of approaching people with "Hey, my wife's ok if I sleep with you" or whatever variety that takes.

If this helps at all, I have unconsciously attracted many "open", "poly" type lovers in the past, simply because that's how I'm wired. I'm beginning to find it amazing how many people that I've clicked with have ended up being poly to some degree.

Like attracts like. Maybe you will begin attracting people who will already be open to this lifestyle and it will evidence itself in some kind of organic unfolding, rather than the awkward approach??

Hope that's a help...

[Manno]

really just getting that off of my chest was a big deal.

I don't have anyone really to talk to about this that gets it. She does.

[rolypoly]

I get it. I will step back and let you unload. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

I will step back and let you unload. :)

Not to inject humour but...HAHA!! That must be quite impressive if you need to "step back" Hahhahaaa!!

Now I'll grow up...maybe

[rolypoly]

Oh, you know, I was thinking as I type that, "This could be taken the wrong way, but these people are mature and will understand what I mean".

Thanks for proving me wrong. HAHAHA!!

[redpepper]

I think I get what your wife has been through. I have a six year old too. I had crazy hormones, got over weight and breast fed until my boy was 3. Didn't make me feel sexy at all and I did not feel like having sex at all! Now it has totally turned around. I had a bit of a time where I was in party mode over my new freedom and felt so good. My husband and I talked about getting back into poly at that time and it came about in our lives again slowly with a lot of interesting interludes.

I would suggest that your wife told you to go out and find a woman to have sex with because of her own frustration with her lack of freedom from your daughter, her body not being what it used to be and the seemingly endlessness of feeling like that. Now she has found that she can have some freedom back, her body back and be desirious of sex again. She is just beginning to enjoy that I'm sure. Try and remember that she said all that and acted like that in the past. This is now and a new leave has turned.

Do I think she should of done what she did? No! She cheated in my book. Her having sex with her friend should of been discussed with you in great detail in terms of what you could both do together in order to maintain your bond and connection. It should of been talked about with the friend and everyones boundaries and rules discussed. Of course they seem to get blown out of the water anyway after the act happens and re-thought out, but that would of been the most respectful to you.

Is all lost? I don't think so. Its not like you were blind sided. You knew that things were in the works and were not surprised or concerned. I think you should do your best to put the past behind you in terms of your wifes early childhood years and move forward. I think that you should ask for what you want from her in terms of intimacy and strive to work on your sexual relationship together before she sleeps with her friend again. If this is someone she wants to continue with then now is the time to work on boundaries and rules with the friend before they become closer.

It will be interesting to see how the energy between them changes as sometimes a bit of a sexual release is all that is needed and the desire to have sex again diminishes forever or at least a time. Use that time to regain connection with your wife. Be really honest about what you want. That is your right. She can always say no and if she does then you will have to negotiate what she wants to do and what she doesn't.

Lots of communicating to do. Get at it my friend.

[LovingRadiance]

Updates appreciated. (hint hint).

Feel free to make some friends on here! We're generally all willing to "listen" when we are here!

I wouldn't run out looking for a girlfriend.
But do work on going out to meet people, make some closer friendships. You deserve that and if one ends up being more-well wadda ya know!

[Manno]

Roly: I was abbreviated today in my replies, as I was at work, and my first remark about being "specific enough" was because I'm a little long winded usually.

Red Pepper: I really appreciate the advice and while I know this happens a lot, I didn't know many people who have gone through it. As for how this all turned a new leaf, I don't feel cheated or disrespected, though I understand every relationship is a bit different. Throughout our lives together, we've paid particular attention to make sure we talk through everything. And your last comment about getting that sexual release out of the way in their friendship, I'm fairly certain it needed to happen, for them and actually for us.

LovingRadiance: Thank you for the encouragement, and I'll keep you posted, though I feel a lot better now that I simply focused and wrote it all down.

[LovingRadiance]

Now you know 3. After my son i was like that for a LONG time. ;)

[Mark1npt]

Mono......don't you ever take a giant step back and unload? Oh, that picture.......I'm in dire need of a mental eraser.......lol

[MonoVCPHG]

Mono......don't you ever take a giant step back and unload? Oh, that picture.......I'm in dire need of a mental erasure.......lol

LOL! I can't even respond to this..HAHAHA!

[redpepper]

Red Pepper: I really appreciate the advice and while I know this happens a lot, I didn't know many people who have gone through it. As for how this all turned a new leaf, I don't feel cheated or disrespected, though I understand every relationship is a bit different. Throughout our lives together, we've paid particular attention to make sure we talk through everything. And your last comment about getting that sexual release out of the way in their friendship, I'm fairly certain it needed to happen, for them and actually for us.

Yes, I didn't think you felt cheated on, but some others might see it as so if it wasn't talked about. You know your own relationship and it's boundaries, it sounds like a "blip" like that is just a "blip," so be it.

It sounds like you are in the habit of talking and that things have settled. I do hope you can get through your thoughts of loneliness though. My husband went through that terribly at the beginning of my relationship to Mono. He took it upon himself to better himself and his self esteem (he is kinda like that, always wants to be the best person ever... no small reason I chose TWO men like that! I respect it) and do things that he wouldn't normally do because I am around. He blogs a lot now on polyamory among other things and has gotten back to some long lost hobbies that he gave up when we had a child. He too gave up things as did I. We both are back on course with our own interests and are much happier for it.

I hope you are able to find what it is that can make you happy too although I don't suggest you start with finding a girlfriend.... one relationship starting is a lot already, settling into that dynamic first might be better until everyone has settled. My husband started a new relationship a few months ago after 8 months of working on the dynamic between Mono, him and I. He tried a relationship after a month of Mono and I getting together out of loneliness and boredom and it was too much drama for us all to handle at the time. Of course, again, you know your limits and your own dynamic.

[Manno]

...The weird turn pro. -HST

This line has been a great description of my life so far, and this recent "shift" hasn't been any different.

Again, as I think I stated in the context of the tomb that was my first post, that I've learned just as much if not more about myself that about my wife in all of these recent events.

I've found over the last few days that I am really invested in my wife's relationship experience with J (as I'll refer to him).

She went to visit him again Monday, after minimal talking, over the weekend, and I was just as concerned as she was that he was not weirded out or what not. I still haven't talked to him, and A (as I'll refer to my wife) has been really wanting me to go play cards with him or do something with him. But the last thing that I wanted to do was go play a poker game with a bunch of folks, yet not being able to talk with him personally about things that were imperative to say to him.

I told her that the first time I hang out with him I need to have her there with us so we can all talk about this together, place everything on the table, and then move from there.

We're supposed to do this friday evening, and honestly, I wish it was tonight so that it wouldn't still be on my mind. However, when A said she'd arrange it and be present, an instant layer of awkwardness was removed from my perceived future discussion with J.

I got out of the house last night, and while all I did was watch a movie with two friends (non-couple) of ours in a living room, the time was well spent.

Still haven't talked to someone else in person about this, and I'm not sure how I will approach it with anyone that already knows A and I because I don't want them to be weirded out.

[Manno]

I'm really trying to figure out who I can in fact talk to about this:
My tight friends: My best guy friend just had his wife cheat on him with his brother and leave their marriage of 8 years for said brother. This guy's really not keen on open relationships as well. My wife and I's "fantasy unicorn," and her boyfriend are not options either, she's a little to tightly wound up and doesn't like to share really deep feelings (much the reason of why we know she's only a fantasy) even though we're tight friends (we moved across the country together). Her boyfriend is a man of MANY insecurities and jealousness, and I just don't think he'd respond well to this.

My casual friends are really closer to A than me, and while she and I flirt openly with many of them, she does so more and I'm really waiting for both of us to reveal this choice to /some/ of them.

My personal casual friends/acquaintances: Most of these are coworkers, which I already do not share many of my lifestyle choices.

My family: they live 2500 miles away, and while I know they'd be okay, my brother is having a rocky time with his marriage because an extramarital affair and I do not want to add any drama to that mix.

A new development comes from a dinner party we through on Sunday night (we're really big foodies and are friends reap the benefits) At the party, I spent time with this a friend of ours with whom I'm attracted, my wife took notice and encouraged me to pursue my attraction to her (the friend I went out with last night did as well, though she subtly revealed it). But at the same time, I don't know how I'm going to approach this, and I don't want to weird her out by asking to meet with her without A.

[Manno]

So, I agreed that I'd keep this forum posted into the happenings of this paradigm shift, and now I'm at the end of a full week since we really for sure went down this path.

Despite both of us having some hellish physical afflictions, I'm learning how to deal with migranes and she has some siatic nerve problems on her back, we're doing well together and have learned a few more things about our relationship.

The big news: I kinda have a relaxed atmosphere hang-out date with a friend of ours whom I'm really attracted. Now I'm just kinda wondering how to approach this, and what have you.

I got out of the house this to meet with a friend, K, and unbeknownst to me, A (my wife) told her about the goings on in our relationship, and that night I mentioned another friend of ours, S, that I really enjoyed visiting with at our dinner party. K provided me with her number and we've made some plans.

I'm not sure if our friend K has briefed S on my relationship, and I'm wondering if I'd completely surprising her if I bring anything up. Maybe it is just dating jitters I've never really felt since the 90s.

I know I'm not the only person new to polyamory who has felt this way.

Any tips?

[redpepper]

Welcome back to dating jitters.

The only tips I have is to make sure you stay really in tune with your wife and her feelings. Even if she says she is fine, that can change on a dime, so keep asking. Better to annoy her with asking how she is too much than to find she has been hurting and you didn't know it. Otherwise, there's the fact that you need to make sure you balance your time and energy accordingly with your wife and daughter. Try to leave your excitment at the door about a particular person and use it to fuel a good home life.
Have fun :)

[Manno]

Are you sure you don't have a Ph.D? :P

No, I'm a little lucky on this situation. A knows this woman and she's kind of fond of her as well, and she did in fact suggest I have her over.

As for the whole energy thing and attention to the missus, I'm actually looking forward to what this will do in that regard.

And yes, I'm sure A will want to know all of the details. I think I'd be hurt if she didn't ask.

-M

[redpepper]

In my experience it spruces up the sex life tremendously! I hope your wife isn't in a refusing mood in the next while! It sounds like you are already accustom to talking about people that you are attracted to.

I find that there is little need sometimes to even sleep with others and in fact it sometimes takes away that feeling of anticipation and horniness. Prolonging that for a good long time can make the experience of being close to your wife that much sweeter and more intense. Not to mention when you sleep with the prospective secondary!

Building outside relationships can be so fullfilling to a marriage in that respect. I don't know why as a society we condone it so much.

[Manno]

So, last night was great. We had my wife's boyfriend over for some pizza and some visiting time about all three of us.

The evening could not have went any better. Not only did I feel great after our talk, but I really believe both of them felt relieved that this was not going to be awkward because we are all three like minded adults. . We drank some wine, sat on our deck and enjoyed one of the last great NW evenings. After that, he and I went to play poker and then go to a costume party together, which means I got my costume partying out of my system and my wife can go out tonight and do the same. Great times.

As for my date-ish thing tonight, I think all will be well.

[HappiestManAlive]

RP - I think you ment "condemn", not "condone", LOL. :p

Manno - A very interesting read and a very interesting situation. I think you two are on target for one awesome lifelong relationship. The level of communication and honesty and understanding you are both exhibiting is one to which we all aspire (or should anywy)!

[Manno]

"In my experience it spruces up the sex life tremendously! I hope your wife isn't in a refusing mood in the next while! It sounds like you are already accustom to talking about people that you are attracted to. "

Yes... it definitely has... and I'm quite thankful for that, and my wife hasn't seemed this sexy in years.

-M

[Manno]

So, yesterday was Halloween, which has always been a day of new beginnings for me. Though I don't practice, Samhain/Halloween has an inexplicable spiritual significance to me. This year's was another.

This year was my wife's turn to go out for Halloween, and once I realized I could not go out with her because of childcare, I set a plan in motion to set up a invite over to my house a woman to whom I've been attracted for about six months.

I haven't spent any time with her because, honestly, I did not feel up to getting close to yet another woman to whom I'm attracted yet couldn't express that attraction. I didn't want to deal with the sexual tension and frustration.

I was a bit nervous all Halloween day as I made plans for her visit, bought a great bottle of wine for the evening, then took my child out trick or treating, and finally went to a halloween costume party with my wife and daughter some of our closest friends, including her boyfriend. When my girl got a bit tired, A and J took us home, I put her in bed and as I turned out her light, my doorbell rang.

The visit began better than I could have ever hoped. We both had a bottle of our favorite wine for the other to taste, and she suggested we played a game of sense to determine which wine was which, as they were both similar in taste. So we labeled two glasses apiece corresponding to each bottle with matching stickers on the bottoms of the glasses. After the first glass of each, we tried to figure out which wine was which. They were both amazingly rich red wines, yet we knew our wines when we tasted them.

And while it was one of the most sensual moments I've spent on a _first_ date, I felt that I, at that moment, needed to let her know that I was attracted to her and that I was, in fact, considering this a date. I first told her how I was attracted to her and then she responded with a barrage of responses and questions to which I simply responded truthfully and sincerely. They ranged first with a revealing of mutual attraction, I learned she dated men younger than me, yet an intellectual connection was something she was lacking from those relationships. She of course wanted to know how A felt and even if she knew this date was taking place; I saw relief on her face when I told her that not only did A know, but suggested I set this up. She asked where she was at that moment, and I told her that she was out with her newly found boyfriend.

At first she seemed a bit reserved, and revealed that she had tried an open marriage and that it failed, but as we talked we inspected how it fell apart and she told me that they simply went off in different directions without each other and never made it back.

We talked about my philosophy that I've seemed to have always had formed in my head. She agreed as I explained about how jealously and the other dark emotions humans form between relationships can be destroyed by honesty and open communication between one another. I explained that I still loved my wife and knew that would never change and that I'd be with her until the end.

She told me that she would want to talk to my wife and I told her that would indeed be a must. But she also asked me the most intimidating question:

"What will a single woman such as me get out of dating a married man like you?"

This was a question I've almost been dreading, and I knew it was coming. I had never had an answer, but one arrived instantly. I told her that I am offering an emotional and intellectual bond along whatever manifests physically and that I could not ask of her anything that I did not want asked of me. I also told her that no matter what happened I still wanted her to become a closer friend.

She agreed that our mutual attraction was quite nice to express and told me that she was both curious and excited at what could happen out of this experience, now that we laid down exactly where they could possibly unfold. She also told me that she was seeing someone else, though they were not an exclusive couple. She wanted to know what I would thought would happen if we started something, yet she and he bonded into something exclusive. I told her no matter what happened, she would be free to do what she wanted with me or not, but on the condition that were open about what was happening. I reiterated that I did not believe in secrecy and deception with those I close to me.

We continued to talk for a while, getting closer on the couch, and spent the rest of the night enjoying one another's company, yet not crossing any boundaries she and I both felt uncomfortable with until she talked with A. We made plans to see each other this Tuesday as well. It was a great night.

This morning I awoke to my wife waking up to talk to me. We both shared our evenings with one another. I'm so happy that she is enjoying herself and happy I'm doing the same.

As we got up to make something for brunch, I was about to text S to tell her that I'd had a wonderful evening, when she texts me before I hit send. I read it to find she really needed to talk to me. I quickly called instead of finishing my text and the first the she asked was whether I was going to tell A about what happened last night. I told her we already talked about it and that A agreed to give her a call sometime today to talk to her.

S had a bit of a panic because one of her girlfriends knew we were together last night, but not the circumstances of the "date." A and I both alleviated that by talking to her today.

I spent most of my day doing work, and when I was returning home, I called S to see how the rest of her day went and that I was still very excited about Tuesday. She told me she enjoyed the open communication I had with her all day.

I got home, spent time with my two ladies at home and finally got to procrastinating more work at the computer. Now that I've typed this, I'm going to go back to it.

I do have a strong concern in all of this: I find myself really wanting to make sure S is okay with all of this as I know I dropped a lot into her lap by inviting her over. I don't want to sound needy, but I really just want to know that she's okay and not weirded out.

[Manno]

So, I'm about to go on my third outting with my friend S and things are going well.

Last night I went over to her place and enjoy her hot tub (win!) and while I wasn't sure what was going to happen on that visit, everything happened the way we wanted it to go.

Our first date was really awesome, and enjoyable; however, it did get a little physical fast, and while that was a thrill, it was also a bit overwhelming for both of us. Very enjoyable, but just a little too quick, and honestly, while when I was single, I'd initiate a sexual relationship a bit fast, but that is not what I am looking for here.

I'm actually looking for something my wife has, a true friend with whom she was attracted, yet they become great friends before anything really developed. Someone who understands me and enjoys my company. I don't want to be misconstrued by anyone as exhibiting really swinger like behavior... especially the people around me.

S is not really poly, though she's experienced in some open type marriages, I don't think she gets exactly what my wife and I are doing because her past experiences cloud how well we work. I'm hoping that being around my wife in the future will show her that we're totally different than her experiences.

One thing she talked about last night was the possibility of my wife to fall so hard for someone that she would want to leave me. And that simply is not a viable possibility in our dynamic. This is hard for her to understand, and I really would like her to understand things a bit more.

On another note: we're also facing a bit of a dilemma. As I've mentioned we have a group of friends that are really tight with me, but I'm uncertain how we should approach them with this news. Of course we're thinking for telling them. Anyone have any comments on how I should about this?

Well that's all for now.

[Argent]

Thank you for sharing.

I'm new to this all as well, so hearing the stories of others is really comforting to me, and makes things so much easier.

Thank you again. :-)

R

[AutumnalTone]

"As in sometimes one sexual encounter in several months time, and an entire year after her pregnancy. During that time, I would make advances and be shot down over and over only to have her tell me that if I really wanted to go and find someone to have sex with, I could, but I should know that I would never have sex with my wife again."

Wow. I would have filed for divorce at that point. Sorry, Homey don't play them games.

And then she comes home and announces she fucked her friend when that sort of thing was an agreed-upon no-no?

I'm going to suggest finding a poly-friendly counselor. I see lots of issues that need to be addressed.

Keep your stick on the ice, man.

[Manno]

But life's never that cut and dry, and while I was sexless, I was happy in many ways. Just frustrated. And you are implying that there is tons of bitterness left in all of that. there isn't, we were just applying the wrong rules to the game.

As for why we were so hesitant to dropping monogamy from our lives earlier, We just moved from a region of the country were this would not have gone over well. Now that we're up here, the social constructs that messed up our upbrings are pleasantly being shed.

[Manno]

So, I haven't written about this today, but my budding romance has been stifled.

I played pool with S last night and really enjoyed was enjoying the way things were going and then we decided to sit down and talk for a little while before we both go back to our homes.

I could go on and on about it, but in the end, it comes down to this: S started to question any long term implications of our relationship and what it could and could not (mostly could not) offer. While S is older than me... I don't honestly know how much older (i'm 32) she has just run her course with several different friends with benefits relationships and she's finding herself wondering if she's going to wind up alone. Furthermore, she told me her attraction to me was different than these flings as I was interested in some of the same things.

And while I'm not sure what the future would bring, and I'm fairly certain that I could eventually cohabitate with several people, I don't know that enough to even consider trying to elaborate that information to someone else.

In the end, S, though she's explored open marriages and what not before me and never saw them working for her, and she's looking for a serious relationship that could turn into a monogamous marriage and i have a feeling i might be a little of what she is looking for. And why that feels great, it isn't optimal.

While I do not begrudge her for this at all, I hate that this didn't work.

I started then to really consider why I decided to pursue this in the first place. S was very attractive, and I already felt some sort of pull toward her in my subconscious but I again, i didn't act on this b/c of attractive and sexual frustration out of this. However, this was not only apparent in myself but also this attraction was evident in my wife as well, as she suggested it. I found myself intellectually stimulated by her and she told me that the feeling was mutual.

What is cool about what went down: Our initial acquaintance has not been ruined, and I've opened up to her faster than I rarely do with anyone (mostly because I felt like I had a lot I was placing on the line), and now I really feel like I have someone I can hang out with a bit.

What is "the suck" about this: I'm not getting something that I realize I really want with her, which is a boundless romantic relationship and I could wind up just as frustrated (but not because of my own hesitations) because I still find her very attractive.

[leeandlouise]

I'm in such a similar situation that I feel like I could have written your post.
Here was my initial (and only) post I made to this site. Mine was much shorter but had I continued you could have copied and pasted from me.
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=710
Here's the similarities:
For 15 years my wife was uninterested in sex with me. Most of her problems were because of some personal background issues. Over those years I had other possibilities (with different partners) but I didn't want to hurt her or make her feel inadequate, so I dealt with it. I just figured I was married to a fantastic woman who didn't like sex much. We also went for a year after one of the kids.
In the past year my wife has been developing a friendship with a mutual acquaintance of ours. I discovered it by accident, which was initially disturbing, but through many (a lot) of discussions it has led us to this point.
Through a mutual agreement and my prompting she has met with and proposed her physical desires to her new friend. He's interested, but on the fence at the moment. He told me that he's a little unsure of all this and wants to think about it. I think he told her the same thing.
But, here's the thing. I also find myself in a strange place. We've moved and I work from home and I no longer have that social network. I don't have any male or female friends at all and I definitely don't have any prospective girlfriends/lovers. ... although gay men seem to be attracted to me, so maybe I should switch gears (ha, unfortunately my wiring doesn't seem to work that way). Anyway, I've done some crazy stuff out of desperation. I joined Ashley Madison. Hated it. I answered ads from Craigslist. Had a very nice lunch with a 25 yr old student, but no chemistry. I'm at a loss. I don't want to be on a hunt for another partner. I really love my wife and I truly understand her new sexual/emotional awareness. But, through all of this I just feel lonely, kinda sad for myself, and lost.
Too bad we aren't neighbors. I'd love to hang out with you and have a beer or something.
I wish you luck as your future unfolds. I know I'll keep checking the posts to see what happens. I don't really have much else to do anyway.

[Manno]

I have to admit though... mine was not a stumble by accident kind of thing...

As for the whole social work network... yikes. While you work at home, I'm a high school teacher... I sometimes ponder the okayness with surfing this forum on my own laptop while on their system.

Yes, I'd love to share a pitcher of a good IPA and discuss how things went down!

[redpepper]

Wow. I have so much to say. Questions more than anything. What's with the cheating? Why are you two not having sex? What is it with her desire to fuck other people and not you? What is it that makes you stay? Why is she allowed the possibility of a poly relationship and you are left with cheating?

I would love to hear more about Ashley Madison on the "selling cheating" thread if you are up for it.

I don't get this whole thing. What is it about women who don't want sex with their husbands but do with other men?! Personally I would be furious (I think I am furious for you at this point) if I were you and would probably leave. Please explain how this works for you and her? What are you staying together for? The kids I can see staying together for, but in this day and age its possible to stay together in a house and not be together anymore. This is what my tersiary does with his ex wife. It works fine for them.

[redpepper]

I have to admit though... mine was not a stumble by accident kind of thing...

As for the whole social work network... yikes. While you work at home, I'm a high school teacher... I sometimes ponder the okayness with surfing this forum on my own laptop while on their system.

Yes, I'd love to share a pitcher of a good IPA and discuss how things went down!

Oh can I come! I love IPA! I will sit oh so quiet and just be a fly on the wall (haha! Probably wouldn't, but am oh so interested in this!)

[leeandlouise]

Well, the stumble by accident part was bad, but now that I look at it, for the best. Here's the deal. My wife's past included a lot of sexual repression that led to awkward relationships with previous men. This all transferred into our relationship, but I saw more in her and told myself that it was her I was in love with, not the sex. Unfortunately, over time, this led to a lot of marital instability that caused fights and bad feelings and eventually a loss of interest in each other from a physical standpoint. Fortunately, we got along very well outside the bedroom. Now she tells me that about 2 years ago she "grew" into her sexual self and started enjoying it ... by herself. By this point things between the 2 of us had become mechanical and there was too much bad history. So, after finding out about her new friend, we started communicating again. I've lost 30+ lbs, look good and feel great. She finally talks to me and we are having the best sex ever. We find our new found communication a huge boost to having the best marriage we know of ... it's our "honesty clause" that does it. No more secrets, and it's working.
Next time your in Indiana, we'll have you over

[leeandlouise]

you wouldn't even have to be a fly. Maybe the two of us would hit it off! Everyone's invited.

[NeonKaos]

The kids I can see staying together for, but in this day and age its possible to stay together in a house and not be together anymore. This is what my tersiary does with his ex wife. It works fine for them.

I know a family like this. They never got married legally, but they were together and had a son and when their son was like 5, the "wife" decided that she wanted to break up but still live together and raise the kid together, and the kid is 14 now and they still live together and are friends but have separate bedrooms and love-lives (they are not "poly").

[AutumnalTone]

While I do not begrudge her for this at all, I hate that this didn't work.
...

What is cool about what went down: Our initial acquaintance has not been ruined, and I've opened up to her faster than I rarely do with anyone (mostly because I felt like I had a lot I was placing on the line), and now I really feel like I have someone I can hang out with a bit.

What is "the suck" about this: I'm not getting something that I realize I really want with her, which is a boundless romantic relationship and I could wind up just as frustrated (but not because of my own hesitations) because I still find her very attractive.

Well... sometimes love is bittersweet. The only way to find out if something is going to work is to commit to finding out--and that's also what makes it painful when things don't work. There are many women in my past whom I love deeply and I bear the disappointment that things just couldn't work with them.

It takes only a couple of them and a few years' time and one can fully understand Shakespeare when he said "'Tis better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all." Life is a banquet and the dishes include all of the basic flavors--sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and savory. It's the blending of the flavors that make for an interesting meal.

[redpepper]

Well thank you very much leeandlouise! I'd love to get off this rock (I live on an island)! That would be great wouldn't it?!

Does your wife know about the cheating?? Can you start making time to get out and meet people, start finding your tribe? Have a social life so you don't feel left out?

Thanks for the clarification... It makes more sense now.

[leeandlouise]

This seems to have gotten off on a little tangent. But to Redpepper: Thanks for the reply again. All of the stuff I do is completely without any secrets. This would include Ashley Madison. My wife actually found this thread this morning and sent it to me, she knew it was similar to my situation. She's been following along at work as we post. AM didn't work for me because I realized that it's just a spot for a bunch of miserable cheating guys desperately looking for someone. The only women I found were "friends of my mom" or ladies I could've met at the Holiday Inn Lounge on a Tuesday. Maybe it's just living in the Hoosier state, but the gene pool seems a little shallow or at least my only prospects were (not my type?). There also seemed to be a complicated form of prostitution happening. ... I don't know.

So, back to Manno... do you have any more prospects? and how do you explain where your wife is to your kid, when she's out with her bf? Also, does she spend the night? One of my concerns is the loneliness while she's gone. That, and the fact that I'm an artist and very visual, so I imagine what might be happening, and I get that little jealousy twinge. I want to be there ... in his place ... or at least have someone here with me.
I also sometimes wonder about the long term effects of this situation. What if she ends up loving him more and I'm just part of the daily grind with kids, school, homework, chores, bills, etc? She'd still love me but it seems like it would just become kind of ho hum. I want to be the exciting guy! How's this working for you so far?

[redpepper]

With all due respect to Manno as he certainly has free reign over answering your questions, I just wanted to let you know that there is a lot of stuff people have posted that could help you get your questions answered.

Perhaps if you don't find specific answers you might like to start your own thread? I certainly would be willing to give my two cents as I have been living poly for sometime and have a child ... Etc.

Have a good read. See you when you have caught up! :)

Back to you Manno.Sorry for the hyjack :)

[Manno]

First off... this forum has been immensely helpful for me during this whole thing.

"So, back to Manno... do you have any more prospects? and how do you explain where your wife is to your kid, when she's out with her bf? Also, does she spend the night? One of my concerns is the loneliness while she's gone.

My wife has always gone out by herself. So A is out when she's with J and I don't have to worry about that. She doesn't stay there, but just today I realized that she thought that I was waiting up for her (when I really was just trying to be accessible to my daughter while she was gone) I'm okay with her not coming home, but I don't want it to be an all the time thing if it happened. Occasionally, sure, but really on a saturday morning, I'd like her to be there. Were we kidless, I think it wouldn't matter as much.

That, and the fact that I'm an artist and very visual, so I imagine what might be happening, and I get that little jealousy twinge. I want to be there ... in his place ... or at least have someone here with me.

You can't place yourself in her relationship with him. Even the imagery. If she's still with you, then that is clue enough that she enjoys her time with you as well. You wouldn't want her doing the same for you.

If you are an artist, I'm a budding painter, take that energy onto a canvas. You'll appreciate it more... and I bet that artistic spirit is one of the things that yourwife finds attractive about you.

I also sometimes wonder about the long term effects of this situation. What if she ends up loving him more and I'm just part of the daily grind with kids, school, homework, chores, bills, etc? She'd still love me but it seems like it would just become kind of ho hum. I want to be the exciting guy! How's this working for you so far?"

Look at the first part of your lives, did you not already become another thing on that list. That changed it. And I'm sure it isn't now.

And yes... I want to be the exciting guy, but I don't have an easy way of doing anything outside of the house with A right now and I want to fix that... That is a problem and I refuse to relent until I've found a solution.

As for other prospects for a relationship: I have an infatuation right now... and it is a distant one. But other than that, not really. I'm sure that will change. But I agree with you, a work network that offered some sort of socialization in this level would be nice, but that's not really an option. I already keep my nonwork self pretty private... this would more than likely shatter some of my coworkers minds.

[redpepper]

So much to talk about over IPA!

We also have painting to talk about too as painting is my first love! If I didn't have a mortgage and it was just me I would endevour to be a painter full time. I have a studio that I go to and do my own therapy. I have a few shows a year if I can too.

Perhaps I will get back to art therapy as it is what I have a masters in...

Oh I am so sorry for continuing to hyjack!! Geeeez! Okay I will shut up now.... ;)

[Manno]

Mostly interested in character studies, and Katie West is my inspiration. Yummy.....

This new infatuation is someone else that I'd like to paint. Perhaps I can maneuver a chance to see her soon.

And being threadjacked at least means people are reading... I just hope my experience is helpful to someone else that goes through this.

[leeandlouise]

That's very cool that both of you like to paint. I used to paint a lot, but my actual career is more geared toward the commercial side of things, and sometimes I find I lose focus. I just started back up with actual fine art painting very recently. Actually all this with my wife prompted it. I choose to work on wood (think thick veneer) and I use all kinds of media. Spray paint, oils, acrylics, paint pens, india ink, sanders, sand paper, oops paint from home depot. i don't discriminate. It's creative and fun, but it also gets some of that frustration out. It's not representational at all.
I'm kind of a Hefe Weisen man myself, though.

[leeandlouise]

oh, and to both of you ... thanks.
all this is really making me not feel so awkward about all of this

[Manno]

It is just an odd water temperature to get used too.

I had a wonderful weekend, though it started a bit troubled. I was hit pretty hard by the news of my friend not feeling good about getting involved with me. As SeventhCrow said, it was bittersweet. And I really did not know how well I would recover from making a leap of faith as I did.

Because of this, I have to admit that I got a little mopey around the house about it, and it made my missus feel a little frustrated with me. However, as it works, A and I had a wonderful talk in the middle of the night Friday and then enjoyed Saturday, making pizza, tooling around on laptops and we even got out my old bass and I gave her a lesson (something we've not done in the 10 years together). Total WIN.

Yesterday evening I was invited to go to a party with A's boyfriend and so I did. It was a wild animal themed party, so that set the mood right and I dressed as a Safari Hunter, so I thought I was sending a message with my costume :P. So anyways, I let last week go and decided to really enjoy myself and I did.

The night was great and while I did see the source of my before mentioned infatuation, I wound up meeting someone else who I sat and talked with for the bulk of the night. I am not going to pine on about her, even though she's really cool, but what I liked was when I explained how my life functions, she really seemed receptive to it and had plenty of questions for me, to which I even had plenty of answers. I did not hear the "what will a gal like me get out of dating a married man like you."

I'm hope we get to talk to one another soon, but again, I don't want to jinx myself.

[leeandlouise]

So, you hear: "What's a gal like me gonna get from dating a married guy like you?" I'm just starting up with all this but I'm already getting that vibe. Seems like this is a much easier/more convenient lifestyle for the females. Guys don't seem to care about the long term as much. But, women I meet are definitely concerned how this fits in with longer term plans, etc. Granted, our current partners would be more willing to date us if things were turned around, but ....
I just think there doesn't seem to be that many people out there that want to get in any kind of relationship with a married guy.
On a good note, we went to a party at a club this past Saturday and our waitress actually responded positively to me when I explained our marriage and how it works. She willingly took my info but I didn't end up getting hers. Maybe I made my first "dating" mistake. We'll see ... I'm old enough to be her dad anyway, she probably just thinks I'm an old perv. But, it's fun to be able to at least dream about it and not feel the guilt. My wife thinks I'm a kook.

[MonoVCPHG]

"What's a gal like me gonna get from dating a married guy like you?" .

I'm probably going to push a few buttons here but my intent is to help develop reality based discussions around this topic.

This is a hell of a good question. I would be prepared to offer something that makes sense. Considering probably 90% of the world practices monogamy of some sort and has the expectations of mono relationships, a little development in your arguments would be highly advised.

What does a married guy offer to a single gal?
Will she feel comfortable bringing you home to meet her parents?
Are you going to give her the security of a marraige type relationship if she wants it?
Will you give her children?
Will you be proud and open about her and is she free to be with you openly?
Will she have a secretive relationship similar to an affair and only known to you and your wife?
What besides sex and occassional dates are you going to offer her?

Not to sound harsh, but really, for most of the single female population (especially the younger population) a married guy does apparently have little to offer. And so the debate begins :)

[redpepper]

You sure she wasn't just being nice leeandlouise?

[NeonKaos]

On a good note, we went to a party at a club this past Saturday and our waitress actually responded positively to me when I explained our marriage and how it works. She willingly took my info but I didn't end up getting hers. Maybe I made my first "dating" mistake. We'll see ... I'm old enough to be her dad anyway, she probably just thinks I'm an old perv. But, it's fun to be able to at least dream about it and not feel the guilt. My wife thinks I'm a kook.

Your wife is a very astute person.

You tried to hit on a WAITRESS?

I don't know you and I don't know the waitress, but people who work in restaurants have seen it ALL. The only reason she "willingly" took your info was because in HER mind, her tip depends on being "nice" to the CUSTOMER.

You = Customer.

[leeandlouise]

yeah, probably.
But I did ask her if she'd be interested in dating? She "said" she would, who knows?

[leeandlouise]

that was after the tip portion.
But I am a big tipper. I've worked that kind of job in the past, I know.
Anyway, we were there early because of a private party, so she sat with us for about 45 minutes before the club actually opened. I wasn't just making a random hit. We had some history! ha

[NeonKaos]

that was after the tip portion.
But I am a big tipper. I've worked that kind of job in the past, I know.
Anyway, we were there early because of a private party, so she sat with us for about 45 minutes before the club actually opened. I wasn't just making a random hit. We had some history! ha

More power to ya, slugger! ;)

[leeandlouise]

The "ha" meant, "I'm a joke"
you're right, she just wanted the money. I'm just giving all this a try for the 1st time in over 18 years. My wife has her man, I've got nothing, not even a hopeful. But, it's OK. Maybe someone will like me sometime, maybe they won't.

[NeonKaos]

The "ha" meant, "I'm a joke"
you're right, she just wanted the money. I'm just giving all this a try for the 1st time in over 18 years. My wife has her man, I've got nothing, not even a hopeful. But, it's OK. Maybe someone will like me sometime, maybe they won't.

Hey, who am I to rain on your parade!

The more lines you put out, the more likely you are to catch a fish (or someone's old shoe)!

[Manno]

I meet with Ms. "What is a gal like me going to get out of dating a married man like you?"

I guess this is just the first time that I'm interacting with her since things went cold and I'm not certain how it is going to go down.

This is an odd one. I didn't figure I'd get so worked up about this tonight. But... Here I am, with things to take care of tonight, and she wants to meet for a moment. I have to admit I'm a little confused, but then again she might simply be dropping by to pick up something and be on her way. And then I'm just making a big deal out of nothing.

Truth is, while I have no strong feelings against her, as my wife pointed out when we talked about this tonight, S pulled the "chicken switch" on me. Chicken switch as in that she was all fine and dandy when I propositioned her, as she was caught up in the moment, the attraction, and the flirtation, but she soon realized something wasn't right and told me she doesn't think she could become involved with me.

Now I do know that I'd like to still hang out with her, which might just be what we're doing tonight, but I guess I'm wondering what will come of that now that we've openly knocked out a lot of barriers, but now are just friends. I'm still attracted to her physically, which is why I didn't pursue a platonic relationship with her in the first place... and now that's exactly what this might have become.

On another note, I am really excited about the girl I met this weekend, but she's going to be busy all this week and weekend. We've made tentative plans for next week, and I honestly want to just want to fast forward to that time to see how that date unravels. Very fun and very receptive to my perspective. However, we've corresponded briefly today.

Damn you patience!

[Manno]

Highlights:

Platonic relationship with S, lots of good talking, learned that she is pursing a monogamous relationship with a guy she was considering breaking up with but reconsidered. She hinted that if that didn't work out that something else might happen with us, and I'm thinking, "So you're gonna string me along?" :confused:

Pinnacle of the night:
Wife texts then calls me as I'm telling S goodbye. My wife asks, "Is it okay for me to come home now."

I reply, "yes" and curiously ask, "well, where are you?"

"In the driveway."

[Manno]

So my wife came home as S was walking out of the door, so after S left, we talked for about an hour, which was amazing. We talked about a few issues, especially the ones covered by S during my night's conversation.

We came upon a topic that S brought up: What happens when people see me or A out on a date.

Amy then shared how she did see a friend of hers from my daughter's school out one night while she was with J. Instead of allowing her friend to skirt around the issue as was her intention and simply not go there, A brought it up directly and informed her that she does not go to that specific place with me, but instead goes there with J only. Apparently it clued her friend in, who simply nodded and smiled and said...

"Ah... Keeping it fresh."

[Manno]

A few things I guess are on my mind.

My wife and I were first and foremost friends. We were for several years before we dated and we talked about the most intricate of things about our relationships with other people. Now, I find myself extremely interested in the success of her emotional tie in her other relationship. I don't want to know any physical details, although part of our original idea is that we can share anything about our other relationships, but I just don't need to know that anymore. But then again, J is a friend of mine. I just hope that I'm not really butting in all the time.

S's visit over last night while my wife was out was really fun, but again, I'm feeling now that I could be okay about it being completely platonic. However, I'm really puzzled about it. S came over last night to pick up earrings and she wound up staying over three hours. There was nothing physical, but she gave that "string me along if this doesn't work out" comment (not her exact words, but implied).

I'm not so sure how I feel about her now that she waffled on me pretty bad. I'm not condemning her actions, but they were pretty rough on my psyche and I don't know how I can take future touch and go, red light-green light experiences with her. She also is looking for a mate in a monogamous relationship, and while she's told me she doesn't want me to be "Mr. Right Now," but she is implying instead, Mr. Later On, all the while she tells me this would really not go anywhere.

To complicate the matter with her, she told me when she turned me down that she was hoping to try to mend her current relationship, which was currently in a bad spot. This is where the stringing along comment was made. (something to the extent of, well, if I wasn't dating this guy, I probably would not have turned you down. proceeded and followed directly with, I don't know if we're going to work out)

Now the guy she's seeing has baaaaaaaaad jealousy issues. Anyway, so yesterday she told me that she'd be seeing him tonight and they were going to see how things worked out. And at 12:30 she texted me, "So, that's over."

So while I've been joking about the string you along comment, and maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, I'm wondering if she's going to change her mind again on me.

Making matters worse in this I am also in a situation that has challenged my patience and I'm not sure if I'm doing so well with it.

I met this amazing woman this weekend. Beautiful, intelligent, with a joyous smile and I felt I really hit it off with her. However, there are some complications. She's swamped this week and can't see me for several days, and I can't get her out of my mind. I haven't dated in a decade, and I especially haven't done it as a married man, so I'm kind of nervous but I feel like I'm in some sort of a holding pattern. I guess I'm still enjoying the spark of rejuvenation when you meet someone really interesting, but I'm unable to confirm it with her and I don't want to feel like a fool if it is not reciprocated. I tried texting her today to start up a conversation, and didn't get a response. But then again, her situation is odd. She's at the end of a waning relationship and is about to be separated. Now that I describe that fear against the situation, it really puts things into perspective and I don't feel so silly about getting my hopes up.

Lastly, getting used to this lifestyle has been a bit taxing. Just writing this down I feel like I could almost write a book about going through this experience. However, instead I have this looming deadline of this paper that at first I was really impassioned about, but as time has gone, I'm not as dedicated to anymore. However, I have to finish it and I want to knock it out over the next few days, but I just can't get in the right mindset to do it. (perhaps I have too much on my mind)

Fortunately, all of this is a backdrop for the amazing relationship that I've got with my wife and that is continuing to grow more amazing day by day. Tomorrow we get to sleep in together, and I'm so excited. I hope it rains all morning.

[Manno]

Update only 30 mins after my last post!

This is some weird serendipity:

I'm watching something and I get a text at 3 a.m. Its from C, the girl I can't get out of my head, asking "What are you doing up at 3 in the morning" and so, instead of trying to text her back... I decided to be a bit bold and call.

She picked up and we started to talk about why we were both up so late/early and then I figured, this is too weird, I might as well go ahead and tell her what's on my mind.

I told her how I was really excited about meeting her and really looking forward to seeing her. She told me the same. (Reciprocation Celebration!)

Then we talked about the text message and she explained that she just received my text, and I replied that I sent that message at 5 this evening.

We cracked up. I explained that I could have understood that she would have thought I was crazy for texting her this late in the evening. And she simply laughed about it more saying the same thing about herself.

We set plans for next Tuesday, which is a week away, but now we've opened a communication and I can't wait for it.

Yay!