Not enough?

[Squibby]

Bit of a rocky conversation with the bf =/ The 'am I not enough for you?' question came up, and I just don't know what to say to that.......

[NeonKaos]

Bit of a rocky conversation with the bf =/ The 'am I not enough for you?' question came up, and I just don't know what to say to that.......

I know it makes us sound like jerks when it is said like that, but basically that is correct. The thing is, it's not the end of the world unless one makes it so.

[redpepper]

love is abundant, not scarce... there is never enough and I don't intend to limit its possibility in my life. That's how I feel about it and what I say. This thread (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4191) has a link to some thoughts on the whole abundance versus scarcity point of view. Maybe it will help. I'm sure there is more on line if you look. Maybe this link will help with the concept of abundance vs. scarcity in life (http://thecoolestcouple.com/abundance-vs-scarcity-its-all-about-our-mindset/)

[sage]

Your b/f sounds mono. I totally agree with Redpepper and I experience that with my poly partner. He loves someone else as well as me and yet I feel more loved than I ever have in my life. Having said that I still get your b/f's words flashing into my head from time to time. They don't come up from any lack in reality but from my interior sense of lack.

The abundance of love is a great concept but what also helps me is thinking about things that are important to me apart from my partner. I love him intensely but I still need other things in my life to make me happy. When I was in a unhappy marriage I didn't think that would be the case. I thought that if I had the love of my life, nothing else would matter, but it does. Our love isn't enough to replace my need to do work I enjoy and is sustaining, or my need for other sustaining and enjoyable friendships. It helps me to put his need for his other love into this context.

[thirstythirsty]

Tricky question. Of course, it's easily turned around. Is my love not enough for you? You need exclusivity as well?

Anywho, Vonnegut wrote something fantastic on the subject..... *shuffles through library* It's from a speech he did, for graduating students at some college.
It's stuck with me.

"Let me beguile you just a little bit more about extended families. Let us talk about divorce, and the fact that one out of every three of us here has been or will be divorced. When we do it, we will very likely wrangle and wail and weep formlessly about money and sex, about treachery, about outgrowing one another, about how close love is to hate, and so on. Nobody ever gets anywhere near close to the truth, which is this: The nuclear family doesn't provide nearly enough companionship.

"I am going to write a play about the breakup of a marriage, and at the end of the play I am going to have a character say what people should say to each other in real life at the end of a marriage: 'I'm sorry. You, being human, need a hundred affectionate and like-minded companions. I'm only one person. I've tried, but I could never be a hundred people to you. You've tried, but you could never be a hundred people to me. Too bad. Good-bye.'

This was in 1974, and I'm sure it's more than 1/3 now. This is the best explaination to why my previos long-term relationship ended, and a large part of why I choose to live as a poly now.
It's not pretty words, not that useful in winning anyone over to your side. I tend to get "you'll always be enough for me", and never do I believe it. But it helps me to see why I live as I do, why it's right for me. Which helps me explain it to others.

[Quath]

My response to that question is to say that it is not about "enough" but about variety and extra happiness.

I try to relate it to parents who want another child. Was the first one not good enough? People don't see it that way. They see it as additional love and fun added to the family. You can say that it is analogous to a poly relationship.

If the child example does not work, you can try the idea of owning more than one pet. Or you can try to relate it to food where you have a favorite, but may want variety.

[MonoVCPHG]

This was in 1974, and I'm sure it's more than 1/3 now.

The divorce rate is less then 50% in the US and declining according to many sources. http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/marital_status_living_arrangements/cb11-90.html....just saying.

[dingedheart]

Quath....Are these examples you used with your partner(s). I know I wouldn't have responded well to being compared to a pet or a steak dinner. Thats just me. In fact I once said I don't share a car or pants or pet with my neighbor why would I want to with a spouse.

RP ...... how does time and attention factor into the abundance and scarcity mindset? If you come from a mono relationship and one spouse finds another relationship her love increases by the number of new partners....abundant. For the mono other partner their time attention and focus from spouse has to be become a fraction. 1/2 ...1/4....1/6 whatever it happens to be. From a time and attention point of view less abundant.

Sage What do you mean interior sense of lack? Or rather in what context?

[Squibby]

The divorce rate is less then 50% in the US and declining according to many sources. http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/marital_status_living_arrangements/cb11-90.html....just saying.

That's still over a third, taking into account what I looked up (your link didn't work for me, perhaps because I'm in the UK), which said it was between 40 and 50 percent...

Hmmm I like your point about variety, Quath, and the example of parents wanting more than one child. Thanks!

[Squibby]

Quath....Are these examples you used with your partner(s). I know I wouldn't have responded well to being compared to a pet or a steak dinner. Thats just me. In fact I once said I don't share a car or pants or pet with my neighbor why would I want to with a spouse.


OK, yeah pet not so much, but a child is a beloved member of the family, whether they're the first or the second or the third. I like Quath's variety argument, but not in the sense of whimsical variety (i.e. trying new recipes for the sake of it or something) but in the sense of adding a new dimension or element of fun and happiness and love to your life.

[TruckerPete]

RP ...... how does time and attention factor into the abundance and scarcity mindset? If you come from a mono relationship and one spouse finds another relationship her love increases by the number of new partners....abundant. For the mono other partner their time attention and focus from spouse has to be become a fraction. 1/2 ...1/4....1/6 whatever it happens to be. From a time and attention point of view less abundant.

A discussion on infinite love ... http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8025

[Hopeful]

When I had "the talk" with my husband, I used this kind of elaborate metaphor to describe my feelings about monogamy, and he liked it so much he's used it to explain our marriage to other people...

Imagine you're shown into a wonderful room. In this room are all the things you love: every video game, book, album, movie, whatever it is for you. All the clothes in the closet fit and are flattering. The bed is soft and comforting, like it was designed for that crick in your neck. You love your room. You love it so much, in fact, that you might never leave. And not leaving is fine. You can stay.

Then imagine that someone says to you, "do you love this room?" And of course you say "oh yes, this room is lovely." And this someone says, "Well, if you want you can stay forever, but if you ever put so much as one toe outside the door, it will lock behind you and you can never ever come back."

That means that in order to stay in the room, you agree that you will never play any other video games, read any other books, wear any other clothes, sleep in any bed other than the ones in that room. Meanwhile, you can look out the window and plainly see that there IS life outside the room - you just can't be a part of it.

That's monogamy. It's not that what's in the room isn't appealing. You love the room, and everything inside it. It's that you're voluntarily saying "I will live in one room forever." So my husband and I decided to go ahead and take the locks off. He's still my room, and I'm still his. But, to belabor the metaphor even further, there is now the possibility for adding rooms to the house.

Anyway, that's my take on it. And it worked for us. :D

[TruckerPete]

Imagine you're shown into a wonderful room. In this room are all the things you love: every video game, book, album, movie, whatever it is for you. All the clothes in the closet fit and are flattering. The bed is soft and comforting, like it was designed for that crick in your neck. You love your room. You love it so much, in fact, that you might never leave. And not leaving is fine. You can stay.

WHERE IS THE BATHROOM??

But seriously, that's an awesome metaphor! :D

[Hopeful]

WHERE IS THE BATHROOM??
OMG I FORGOT THE BATHROOM!! LOL

OK, um...let's see here. The bathroom is always clean, and there's a giant hot tub in it, deep enough that you can submerge to your chin. A sunken copper hot tub. Yeah... And big fluffy white towels that wrap all the way around you even if you put on a few pounds.

In other words, yeah, I love my husband. He's even a metaphorically perfect loo. ;)


But seriously, that's an awesome metaphor! :D Thanks. :)

[MorningTwilight]

When I had "the talk" with my husband, I used this kind of elaborate metaphor to describe my feelings about monogamy, and he liked it so much he's used it to explain our marriage to other people...

Imagine you're shown into a wonderful room. In this room are all the things you love: every video game, book, album, movie, whatever it is for you. All the clothes in the closet fit and are flattering. The bed is soft and comforting, like it was designed for that crick in your neck. You love your room. You love it so much, in fact, that you might never leave. And not leaving is fine. You can stay.

Then imagine that someone says to you, "do you love this room?" And of course you say "oh yes, this room is lovely." And this someone says, "Well, if you want you can stay forever, but if you ever put so much as one toe outside the door, it will lock behind you and you can never ever come back."

That means that in order to stay in the room, you agree that you will never play any other video games, read any other books, wear any other clothes, sleep in any bed other than the ones in that room. Meanwhile, you can look out the window and plainly see that there IS life outside the room - you just can't be a part of it.

That's monogamy. It's not that what's in the room isn't appealing. You love the room, and everything inside it. It's that you're voluntarily saying "I will live in one room forever."

IOW, to a poly, even the very best mono relationship is a gilded cage. It's very nice, very fancy, nicely appointed, but it is, nonetheless, a cage.

That's a fantastic metaphor.

[MonoVCPHG]

IOW, to a poly, even the very best mono relationship is a gilded cage. It's very nice, very fancy, nicely appointed, but it is, nonetheless, a cage.

That's a fantastic metaphor.

I almost lost it on this comment LOL! Then I re-read the first part. I completely agree that to a poly monogamy is a cage. To a mono person it is the pinacle of relationship fulfillment and a foundation to take on other challenges in life.

[TruckerPete]

IOW, to a poly, even the very best mono relationship is a gilded cage. It's very nice, very fancy, nicely appointed, but it is, nonetheless, a cage.

To a mono person it is the pinacle of relationship fulfillment and a foundation to take on other challenges in life.

And herein lies the difficulty in mono/poly relationships!

What a difference in view, eh?

[Ariakas]

And herein lies the difficulty in mono/poly relationships!

What a difference in view, eh?

Indeed...:)

[MonoVCPHG]

And herein lies the difficulty in mono/poly relationships!

What a difference in view, eh?

Totally :) I think it's good not to forget that mono and poly views both come from healthy places as often as they can come from unhealthy ones. Sometimes we project our own negativity towards things under the idea that ultimately everyone thinks and feels the same way we do. It takes a lot of blind acceptance to trust in the happiness of others when we feel so different internally.

[Hopeful]

Totally :) I think it's good not to forget that mono and poly views both come from healthy places as often as they can come from unhealthy ones. Sometimes we project our own negativity towards things under the idea that ultimately everyone thinks and feels the same way we do. It takes a lot of blind acceptance to trust in the happiness of others when we feel so different internally.That is absolutely true. My husband and I both identify as poly, which makes things simpler sometimes. But if he weren't or I weren't, I imagine the conversation would have to be had far differently. I hope my little metaphor didn't come across as me dogging on monogamy - just me trying to express how I personally have always felt in mono relationships.

Talking about my relationship with people who really get monogamy is kind of like my experience of talking about my religion (Celtic Paganism) with friends from other religions. At the end of the discussion, one of us always has to smile and say, "If it makes you happy, then it makes me happy too." Because really, that's the whole point. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

I hope my little metaphor didn't come across as me dogging on monogamy - just me trying to express how I personally have always felt in mono relationships.

:)

I totally get it :) No negativity detected LOL! And to prove it , incoming friend request..with no obligation to accept of course :)

[redpepper]

@dinged, it was talked about at length somewhere on here I think. Try a tag search and see if you can find it... sorry I don't have time right now to find it myself, or get into it for that matter.

[redpepper]

op, I see tuckerpete found something...thanks! :D